The UpSpring Journey: From Dorm Room to Industry Leader

Speaker 1:

Welcome to The Design Board, a podcast created by the team at UpSpring that focuses on design, development, and everything in between. We invite innovators in our industry and explore topics that support your growth in every way. The Design Board is a proud member of SURROUND, a podcast network from SANDOW Design Group featuring the architecture and design industry’s premier shows. Check it out at surroundpodcast.com.

Caroline Saba:

Welcome everyone to The Design Board, a podcast by UpSpring that focuses on design, development, and everything in between. I’m Caroline Saba, vice president of UpSpring, and today I’m joined by the brilliant minds behind the magic here at UpSpring. With me here is our very own CEO, Tiffany Rafii, Sarah Terzic, president, and Susan Fernandez, senior vice president.

Today we are going to chat about UpSpring’s epic growth over these past 14 years. Founded in 2009 by childhood friends Sarah and Tiffany, UpSpring is a dynamic collective of writers, digital marketers, and PR professionals. When Sarah and Tiffany started UpSpring, they promised their staff and clients that they would always look to innovate. The firm has seen a lot of growth in the past two years, and just last summer acquired digital marketing agency Epiphany.

UpSpring has successfully collaborated with the firm founder and now UpSpring senior vice president for years, and the synergy between the two just made sense. Today, UpSpring offers full PR and digital marketing services. The team is a collective of writers, digital marketers, and PR professionals who know how to navigate commercial, residential, hospitality design, architecture, real estate, and products from all angles.

Thank you all for joining me here today. Let’s start from the very beginning. What was the initial vision behind UpSpring?

Tiffany Rafii:

I can kick things off. So, Sarah and I were seniors in college when the idea for UpSpring came to life. We were graduating in 2009 where we all know where the economy was, and it was take a job or convince our parents to give us a year to try and see what we could create. And so, we hit the ground running and as all good businesses do, we started out taking really any client who would hire us to do PR for them. And really our goal was to build a firm that challenged the issues of the industry where many firms had really high turnover. PR firms were always known for maybe not being able to hold onto their clients long-term and being very relationship-focused and based.

So, we set out from the very beginning to build a business that was focused on the core values of really focusing on developing really strategic business development-minded strategies to support our clients even way back then and building systems and delivering on those strategies and building trust with our clients so that they would stay with us for the long haul. And over time, we have continued to really double down on that as a core tenet of our strategy even now, 14, 15 years later that is at the core of how we serve our clients.

Sarah Terzic:

And I think on top of that, it wasn’t even until a year in that we found the design industry to be a focus for us where we saw an opportunity. There weren’t other firms focused there, so we were able to dive in and really make a name for ourselves. It even took three years before we could hire our first employee who’s still with us today. So, there’s a long trajectory in those early years of what it took to establish and grow a business. But I think the difference between Tiffany and I and some of the other businesses out there is that we’ve always been focused on scale.

And it wasn’t necessarily PR that we were so driven by as much as learning how to really build a business. So, the entire process of the systems that we implemented, how we hired, how we set up our organizational structure, how we set up our business development process, all related back to us having a goal of scale. And that really has led a lot of the decisions that we’ve made.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, I love that. It’s crazy to think nearly 10 years ago, we were maybe five people and now we’re, what, almost 70? So, what do you feel has supported overall UpSpring’s growth and evolution?

Sarah Terzic:

I would definitely say part of that is the systems mindset that we’ve had for sure. Again, making sure that we have a process in place so that we can support growth. And growth has been important not only because Tiffany and I obviously wanted to grow the business, but it’s important for our employees. If we’re not growing our business, our employees are just going to be sitting in the same spot year after year. And so, we’ve always been committed to that skill for that reason. And then, I would say pursuit of PD, and I think Tiff has really led that charge for us as a company.

Tiffany Rafii:

For me, I agree with all that, but for me, I think our growth is really based in the culture that we’ve created. I think that the prioritization of not only employee growth, but following employee passion has been a really big part of that for us. It’s hard to grow if you can’t keep your employees. And I was chatting with an advisor that we have a couple of weeks ago and telling them how few people leave, and they were like, “Well, you want some turnover.” The thing that I thought was really perfect. I can see that you do want new blood along the way, which is coming to us by way of expansion and growth, and we’ll chat about Susan in a minute too, and how that really helped to fuel that growth.

But I think really just staying committed to the professional growth and development, but also the client types that our employees want to be focused on and the things they want to be doing being a priority for us, I think has contributed to that growth a lot. Because our team members are invested in that growth, that the growth isn’t only coming from the top.

Caroline Saba:

I love that. So, let’s talk a little bit about Susan. Maybe we start from the very beginning there as well. How did you all meet and then what led to the recent acquisition?

Susan Fernandez:

Absolutely. So, I had a company for about 20 years called Epiphany. It had different name iterations, and I went through partnerships and then became the solopreneur. And I had a focus on the building material space. So, anybody who specified a product or service in the built environment was really our client. As we were growing, we consistently received requests for PR and we tried to dabble in it, honestly. And there’s no dabbling in PR. You’re either really good or you’re not, and that is it. So, I interviewed a few PR firms on behalf of our clients or prospects. And I came across UpSpring, oh my gosh, how long has it been since I sent Kira your way?

Tiffany Rafii:

Oh gosh, it might be eight or nine years at this point.

Susan Fernandez:

So, I sent a very passionate client to UpSpring, and his first response was, “Oh, I’ve heard of them. I know who they are.” But then, he started working with them and everything changed. And I knew if they could bring this level of exposure for this client, they were a solid fit. So, as clients came to us, I would just keep referring them. And then, in about January of 2022, I was pitching a client and I knew exactly who I was pitching against. And I knew what services they offered, and I was thinking, “How can I best this? How can I win this pitch?” And I had just referred a client and had recent interactions with Tiffany, so I thought, “You know what? Let’s see if they’ll go in and pitch with us.”

And as soon as we got together, it was completely obvious that this was going to be like jet fuel for one another. For my clients, being able to have this level of exposure, this level of expertise to immediately establish industry domination while we were still getting traffic to their website was an incredible biz dev way for them to grow. And then, on the PR side, we have a million clients now that we share, well, now that we’re one company. And they just may need a rebranding, an SEO tweak, come to market strategy.

So, being able to really provide clients with this full 360 of services has been incredible. I think it’s a real testament to Sarah and Tiffany that we, from the first inkling of maybe we should get together to sign on the dotted line was about four months and one child later.

Sarah Terzic:

Mind you, that was March. That was March. And my first day in the hospital in May, having my son, we were flushing out the terms of the agreement.

Susan Fernandez:

So, when it’s right, it’s right.

Sarah Terzic:

That’s commitment. But I have to give you credit, Suze. You took a leap of faith with us and entrusted us to merge our teams to merge our businesses, and that’s I think not for the faint of heart. I think just having such a strong foundation of trust in each other has allowed us all to come to the table and be really open and honest and work together to build this company in a way where now we have such a powerhouse of tools available to really be able to service our clients in anything that they need.

And for us only being able to handle certain aspects of their business development and growth on the PR side, on trade shows, things like that, paired with your understanding of the digital marketing universe, it just made us be able to say to any client, “Okay, this is your growth objective. We have something that we can do for you in that department and not have to outsource or rely on external partners or not be part of that process.”

Tiffany Rafii:

Also, just going back to the growth conversation, obviously this provided an opportunity for growth far beyond the organic, but what you don’t see on face value is the opportunity it provided our employees. We would never again potentially lose an employee because they were interested in also learning the more technical aspects of social or paid, or suddenly decided they wanted to learn and dabble a bit in graphics or really up their game from a content marketing and email standpoint. It gives our employees, and Sarah, Susan, and I are really cut from the same cloth. I think the culture fit here says it all. If there wasn’t a cultural fit, we wouldn’t have scaled six or seven people to 23 or 24 people on the digital side in a year.

So, I think really the three of us value giving those employees the bandwidth and the flexibility to try new things and challenge themselves and learn and grow. And now that we’re so integrated, they have the opportunity to really decide what they want to do. They don’t have to major and then stick to it forever. As I tell my five-year-old, you can be more than one thing. So, really having the opportunity to actually do that in a way that isn’t fluffy or something that you’re dabbling in, but rather having a team in place that you can actually learn from that are experts in that department.

Again, when I say the growth, a lot of the growth is coming from within, and it’s really internal and not led from the top. That’s what I mean.

Susan Fernandez:

That’s exactly right. It was such a good culture fit that hammering out the details was just that. There was nothing we were fundamentally misaligned on. And I’m asked this question all the time, how do I feel a year and a half later about coming together? How do I feel about this merging into one company? And I have no regrets. It was absolutely the right thing to do, and it was not just the right thing for me to do, but it was the right thing for me to do for my people. It was exposure to be part of a bigger organization, work on a much more varied range of projects. And for their own personal development, that’s so important.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, I love that. You all started to touch on it a little too, how now we have all of these tools in our tool belt or we’ve become this powerhouse. So, can we talk a little bit too about the synergies between PR and marketing and how they can really be used together to fuel business development for a potential client?

Tiffany Rafii:

As we grow and as the landscape of marketing and PR continues to change, we have to have the ultimate flexibility to change with it and have a pulse on how we can serve clients, where they are, where they need it and push them forward. The caliber of clients that are coming our way are more and more sophisticated day by day, which we’re very grateful for. And so, we need to be able to stay a step ahead of that. And so, it’s not necessarily about the services in isolation can give a laundry list of services that we now offer.

It’s more about the strategic oversight and the ability to understand how all of these services work together in order to build campaigns or initiatives or move the dial for the 101 ways that our clients want to grow and scale, whether it’s by headcount or by geographic region or by market sector. And even those get far more nuanced than that. So, I think having these tools in our tool belt gives us the opportunity to build a cohesive strategy, a cohesive brand strategy, messaging strategy, and then implementing on that from a very high level and informed standpoint.

We partner with our clients. Many of them have some marketing capabilities and how, so this isn’t about us doing everything. It’s about us knowing how to do everything so that we can guide our clients on what makes the most sense. No one has unlimited resources, even the people who think they have unlimited resources. There’s always more that you can do. And oftentimes, in my eyes, the firms who know how to make more out of less are far more efficient and strategic rather than the more is more mentality.

I mean, having these tools in our tool belt for me as the business owner has been amazing. I’ve learned so much and our teams have been able to be involved in these really incredible strategic conversations that we previously could only have half of. So, that has been really, really exciting to watch.

Sarah Terzic:

And I think both Susan, Tiff, and I have all had the same perspective on being business development-minded when it came to how we serve clients. So, that informs every conversation we have, which is why it’s not about a laundry list of services. It’s saying what are your growth objectives for the next six months, a year, five years out? And to Tiff’s point that goes beyond, we want to launch an email marketing campaign. It’s about hey, we’re selling direct to consumer. We’re an e-commerce brand. We need to up our sales. We need to increase our website traffic.

We have particular KPIs that need to be hit down to, we’re an architectural firm. We are a commercial architectural firm in five sectors. Two are doing really well. Three, we need to be seen as more thought leaders in the industry. How can we raise our profile? And it’s starting with questions like that that inform what the strategy becomes.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, I love that. I think that’s where I’ve had the most fun too, seeing the crossover and expertise between the teams, figuring out how to execute on client goals and what that looks like from a PR or marketing perspective. And then, how can those team members lean on one another too to share their ideas of how they can further, whether that’s a thought leadership pitch on social media or how that messaging that’s being created by the PR team gets translated onto the website. So, it’s been really fun to watch the teams organically engage with one another as well in that way.

Tiffany Rafii:

A really good example of that is we’ve always written website copy. In the nearly 15 years we’ve been a firm, we’ve written website copy for countless clients to aid in the teams that have just a developer or a brand and a development company, and they need the content to go on that site. But now the content development strategy is informed by our SEO team and the understanding of how to really elevate that content so that it then supports the digital marketing funnel later on. And so, it’s really just given us the opportunity to level up even the things we’ve always done historically.

Susan Fernandez:

And I think the pandemic really played a role in that as well, because typically in this industry we have a lot of sales reps going firm to firm to sell things like that. We had consumers not really wanting to make big purchases online or thinking of buying furniture, fixtures, anything like that without having a showroom visit. Everything has changed. So, now your marketing has to be able to be branded on point, smart, set up a strategy for conversion at every touch point. And that’s whether you’re at a trade show, whether a prospect is using a QR code to learn more what their digital experience is like on the website to how the press is talking about you.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, absolutely. That’s a great point too. So much has changed post-pandemic. It’s crazy. So, with great success, there are of course probably obstacles or challenges that you also have faced throughout these past 14 years. Can you shed some light on maybe lessons learned from some of those challenges and then how that has further implemented your growth?

Tiffany Rafii:

So many challenges. What I’ve learned from most of my challenges, Sarah and I are very decisive, and Susan is the same, which I really love about our team. We really commit to something and are willing to take a leap based off of the information at hand at any moment and really follow our gut. Those few times that we haven’t been decisive and we’ve dragged out those decisions almost every time have turned out to be a situation that I’ve regretted. So, I guess if we’re going in the advice bucket, I don’t know who actually wants my advice, but if anybody wants my advice, it’s to take a look at the data that you have in front of you.

Make a decision according to that information. Don’t ignore the gut feeling and just know that whatever it is, even if it was a wrong call, you can course correct. But hesitating and dragging out a process is really the worst thing that you can ever do. I mean, being more specific about mistakes. I’d say anytime we’ve either hesitated or waited to invest in technology, it has been a mistake. And so, we have in more recent years been very tech-forward and software-focused and embraced that a lot.

Caroline Saba:

That’s great.

Sarah Terzic:

I think that’s the core of it. And I think that looking back probably the way we have gotten through any difficult decisions that we’ve need to make as a company, whether that’s facing COVID and trying to understand, are we staying in the office? Are we sending staff home? How are we going to do this to, do we need to pivot our business development strategy and focus on new industries? Or are we hiring the right people for the right positions right now? I think a lot of that process and decision-making is about just going in and trusting your gut about it.

And so, I think Tiffany and I, and now Susan all have had the same approach too, where we really listen to one another. And in the 14 and a half years at least that Tiffany and I have been in the business together, there’s not one argument that’s ever taken place which is really unique. And since Suze has joined us, the same is true. And I think that’s about just respectful communication, being able to hear each other’s points and then really letting the person who either cares or feels the most deeply about something run with it and supporting them through that process.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, I think something Tiffany might’ve said a long time ago to me is that you all three are working in the best interest of the company and our clients. So, every decision that’s made, that’s at the core of it. And I think that’s so important too.

Tiffany Rafii:

And it doesn’t mean every call is going to be the right one.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, it’s true.

Tiffany Rafii:

But knowing that everyone’s operating in the best interest of the firm makes it so that if something could potentially be 10% better, it’s not worth getting in that person’s way. Let them operate in the way they believe is the best interest of the collective.

Susan Fernandez:

And then, I think on top of that, and I agree with all of that completely, is what has been incredibly energizing, refreshing, and freeing, partnering with Sarah and Tiffany is they do not dwell on anything that needs to be course corrected. They don’t sit around and say, “Why did we do this?” It is absolutely, “We did the thing that we knew to do at the time we thought it was the best, and if we have to completely do a 180, we’ll do it.” And gracefully with a lot of, I would say, care for all those who are involved, who were now rerouting, but always with a lot of energy and fun.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, I think that’s a great call out, Susan.

Sarah Terzic:

And I think on top of it, it’s about not being afraid of change. And I think that’s fundamental to the way all of us have always run our businesses and now run our collective business, is that we’re never afraid to tear down the house and fix the system and change a process and start at the drawing board. And I think that flexibility is often something that gets lost as you scale and as you grow and you become a little bit more rigid in a hierarchy or org structure.

And I just think that we’ve done a really good job of trying to stay away from the rigidity and not being afraid of just massive change and knowing how to communicate with the full staff and enroll our team and be transparent about why we’re making decisions so that everybody’s also either on board or understands what factors went into our decision-making process so that it’s just super clear across the board.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah. Well, I think a lot of that’s part of the retention too. People are excited about growth and visions and plans and the commitment to those. And then, like you’re saying, Sarah, that we’re not afraid to make change or implement new processes, new systems, and different things. I think that gets everyone really excited. So, we talked about challenges. What about core milestones? Obviously bringing on Susan and her team as one of them. Anything else that you feel like has really made an impact on you both, Sarah, Tiffany, and your careers, and then also an impact on UpSpring?

Tiffany Rafii:

Oh, gosh, milestones. I think I can point to specific clients that have been big wins along the way that have pushed us forward or given us the opportunity to explore new territory and go after clients that we once would’ve thought maybe we were too small to support. Additional milestones, I think we were so focused as any small business would be even five years ago on only hiring client facing individuals, but recognizing the need for team members who help with operations outside of the client facing team members, also a big moment of growth for any company. So, just really being at a point where you’re ready to invest in those things.

And I also think for Sarah and I, although probably more for Sarah than me, to poke fun at her, being able to delegate and the team getting large enough that we can get out of the day-to-day weeds on some of the execution. Having people like you, Caroline, rise through the ranks, and Ashley, and Jana, and all these individuals, and bringing on more senior leadership, which has always been a little bit scary for us. We’ve always been really focused on really bringing team members up through the ranks, but at a certain point, we were growing faster than that was possible.

So, finding really strong team leaders that we could then trust to take over a lot of the day-to-day operations so that Sarah, Susan, and I could really focus on that big picture and that growth strategy and the high level operations of the firm I think were really, really big for us. And honestly, we really grew into the past two to three years. And so, that was a huge catalyst for our growth as well. I don’t know if Sarah or Susan, you have any other milestones.

Sarah Terzic:

Tiffany had to coach me a lot on how to properly delegate, so thank you. But you have to understand that when we started this, we were the ones doing all the client work. And now, the majority of our work is spent on the business of the business and making sure that we’re supporting our team and supporting our growth and the vision of the company moving forward and all of the operational jobs that go into that as well. And to let go and to sit back, and also allow team members to make mistakes sometimes in their own learning process in order for their own growth to happen has definitely been something that’s been important and has allowed us to have that scale.

And then, I think the other thing is we’ve always been good about maybe jumping forward before we were ready in order to push ourselves forward. So, even things like we would take on office space that was three times the size of our current staff because we just knew we would grow into it. We had the financial security to be able to make those decisions. So, it’s not like they were irresponsible, but it was definitely more than what we should have or needed at the time.

And we always just had the faith that we would build to make it a reality. And I think making your environment as such that you have to grow into it propels you forward and keeps you moving in a positive direction.

Tiffany Rafii:

We’ve always been big goal setters, helps you manifest for sure.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, I love that. I was just going to say manifestation.

Tiffany Rafii:

We don’t always hit them, but it helps hit them. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Susan Fernandez:

Yeah. Tiffany’s a boat burner. She’s like, “Get to the island, burn the boats. Now we got to take the island.” No other options.

Sarah Terzic:

And we used to joke, like Tiff would jump right into a pool and not even look to see if there are water. And I’m like there at the side of the pool dipping my toe in, checking the temperature. It’s just so interesting how different we all are, but the different strengths that we bring to the table as a result. I think Tiffany and Susan are probably more alike than me and anybody else in the group. They’re these real go-getters, really know how to push the dial forward, more innovative thinking and on there just calculating and putting the pieces together and making sure operationally we’re sound.

And I think the fact that we’ve been able to have this self-awareness to understand what our strengths are and the confidence to lean into those roles has allowed us to then together form a really amazing mix of strengths that allow us to lead the team.

Tiffany Rafii:

Susan and I just come up with crazy ideas and we make Sarah figure out how to make them a reality is really the truth.

Caroline Saba:

It’s true how your personalities complement one another, though. I love coming to each of you even with the same question and getting entirely different responses.

Tiffany Rafii:

That’s very healthy. Thank you, Caroline.

Caroline Saba:

No, but different perspectives really shed light. And you can take each component of one of those things and then concoct the perfect recipe. So, I feel like you do really all complement one another.

Tiffany Rafii:

Oh, great.

Caroline Saba:

Okay. So, we touched on the staff a little bit and the growth of the staff over the past 14 years. Can we touch on professional development? What does that look like to each of you and how important is that to you as our team grows?

Susan Fernandez:

Well, I will kick this off based on the response to that last question. My personal style is I really want to mentor everyone who is a part of my team, but I head first into the pool and you’ll figure out how to swim. Because we really surround ourself with people who are really smart and very resourceful. They may not have a specific skill, but they can learn it. And so, they have the desire to learn. So, it’s not just that they’re really smart. They’re also really ambitious. And I have no problem really putting them into situations where it may feel a bit uncomfortable. They’re out of their area of expertise for a split second. We give them a lot of support.

And then, all of a sudden, you see this light flash across their face and they think, “Oh my gosh, I can do this.” And now we have somebody who’s like, “Work is not work for me. It’s a place where I go and all of a sudden, I’m transformed and I’m better than I was.” And it’s such a pleasure to be around. Now at the same time, I may push too many people in the pool and then they have to talk to Sarah.

Sarah Terzic:

That’s where I come in. But I would say just as a company in 2020, we made a massive commitment to building our professional development and growth of our employees at the same time as building our company culture. And these were plans that were put into place. It’s not something that happened haphazardly. We really did an audit of the entire company. We brought in a third party to run interviews with our entire staff. We really learned what the pain points were for people. And you have to understand when you’re scaling a business, retention is so important.

And it’s also important that the people in your organization are growing into senior leaders so that you have really capable hands that can handle the clients that you want to bring on board. So, we brought in all different management training, and this is everything from time management. We focused on creating a feedback culture. We gave managers feedback training on how to deliver feedback to different team members and how to work with different styles of work. And then, in that, we created a series of feedback channels for the staff.

So, things like one-on-one meetings where they had an opportunity to not just talk about the to-dos of the day, but really dig into how they were feeling in their role, what they were struggling with, what professional development they needed in order to move forward to their next step, really finalizing what our review process looked like and having more transparency around what that process looked like and giving people an opportunity to be really clear about areas where they need to excel and do well and what to focus on.

So, I think there were a lot of just little things that we did in that timeframe that we continue to do today that really focuses on building that feedback and growth and development for each employee so that we are able to scale the way we want to.

Susan Fernandez:

I think that’s exactly what I said, Sarah, but I appreciate the detail.

Tiffany Rafii:

I can’t take any credit for this, so I feel like I can give out the compliment because it has nothing to do with me. But I would argue that we have one of the best review systems ever, anyone which Sarah and I never worked anywhere else, but anyone who has worked anywhere else who has gone through our review system has told us how incredible it is, how uplifting, how productive, how motivational, how accurate.

I think having people really be heard and seen and understanding the support that they have from their teams and the network that they have here, if anyone has an opportunity to grow, you’re following their passion and you’re committed to them enjoying what they do, and they feel that they have a support system in place and they’re enjoying their day-to-day, there’s no reason for them to ever want to leave.

And I think we have nailed all aspects of that, which is why our retention is so solid. And that lends itself to the clients thing because we don’t have turnover. Their teams aren’t changing. There’s consistency and continuity in the support that our clients are receiving. So, I think really above and beyond, it’s not to say no team changes ever occur. They’re necessary, they will.

But I really think that going right back to that first growth question, I think all of these things really contribute to that growth and development. And for us, that’s a big part of it.

Caroline Saba:

Yeah, I think so too. I think it’s so clear that our full team cares about every single person’s career path and professional development. And I think that then gets articulated in that review process. So, what’s next for UpSpring? Future goals?

Sarah Terzic:

World domination.

Caroline Saba:

Where do you envision the future?

Sarah Terzic:

If you ask Tiff and Suze, we’re going to Pluto and back. They really are going to-

Tiffany Rafii:

We’re not coming back. We’re not coming back.

Caroline Saba:

I hope they have food and water up there.

Sarah Terzic:

I’m just hanging on trying to build the structures behind these two rockets.

Tiffany Rafii:

I think for us, continuing to push the envelope on our digital capabilities is huge under Susan’s leadership and then exploring additional verticals. I think that we’ve served AEC and product manufacturers and home and lifestyle companies for some time. But behind the scenes, we have done work for companies that have been in the community bucket and health and wellness, which is a place we could explore, tackling more on the real estate side, really exploring, right? We have this system in place that has served specific industry verticals for some time.

But as our team grows and scales and we become more aware of their talents and capabilities, we feel there’s so much more opportunity for us beyond where we’ve been. And we’ll never turn our back on the design industry is definitely our heart and soul, but design touches everything. It touches education. It touches healthcare. It touches hospitality, travel, health and wellness, experiences, government. It touches everything. So, where can we follow it in a really thoughtful and authentic way?

And I think that will also come from our staff, their experience, who we hire, what our capabilities look like, where our clients are going. We’ll never force anything. We will follow opportunity and then make the most of it, but as quickly as possible. That’s the whole rocket part. So, we’re excited to see what happens and to continue sharing that.

Caroline Saba:

I love that. Amazing.

Susan Fernandez:

And I like to put a number goal to it. So, I would like to see us double our staff in the next 12 months.

Tiffany Rafii:

You’re going to give Sarah a heart attack, Suze.

Susan Fernandez:

I know.

Sarah Terzic:

I was going to say all I need to do is have another baby because every time I go on maternity leave, you two just take off and double the company and leave me to restructure it all when I come back.

Tiffany Rafii:

Sounds good.

Susan Fernandez:

Us doubling the staff is a number, but what goes behind it means that we are really delivering growth for our clients. We are establishing ourself as the biz dev leaders for our clients in the industry. And we are on top of and easily adapting and mastering any new skill sets, any new technologies, anything that we need to do to deliver that.

Sarah Terzic:

And just for a little fun fact. Maybe you remember this, Caroline, when we were like three years old in our first office space. Tiff and I said, we would never be over 10 people. And I think it’s like, look who’s laughing now as we inch closer to 100. Apparently we did not stick to that original goal.

Susan Fernandez:

And I love building a company that is going to have that same culture that came out of the dorm room of the two of you scaled to 100s. How amazing is it to work at a company that has that level of reach and power and variety, but is that personal for everybody here?

Sarah Terzic:

The only thing I miss is sitting in on biz dev meetings and them being like, “But you guys look awfully young.” I miss those comments.

Caroline Saba:

I don’t miss those. We’re old now.

Sarah Terzic:

That doesn’t hold us back anymore.

Caroline Saba:

Too sunny.

Tiffany Rafii:

We overcame it. We overcame it. We definitely overcame it. They should’ve been less concerned with our age and more concerned with the fact that we’ve never had a job before. But to those who took a chance, to those who took a chance, cheers to those.

Caroline Saba:

Amazing. Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I have loved watching this journey these past few years, but it’s always so nice hearing it from all three of you too. One thing I want to leave it off on is a piece of advice, whether that’s for a budding entrepreneur or maybe someone just graduating college looking for a job in marketing and PR. What piece of advice would you give them?

Sarah Terzic:

I can start. The one thing that I really stand by is that you have to stick to something long enough if you want to see it succeed. And I think too many people go into wanting to build a company or start something thinking that they’re going to be immediately successful. And even, Tiff and I thought it was going to be way easier. Like we’re standing here, we didn’t hire our first employee until we were three years old and now we’re nearly 70. And I think just the grit of staying with something that you really believe in and putting feet to pavement makes a big difference in outcome.

Tiffany Rafii:

Yeah. No, I mean, we tried to start the car three or four times before it actually started to drive. And I can pinpoint moments where Sarah and I would end a day. There were a few times where we would end a day and go have a drink and be like, “Are we going to make it? Is this still worth it?” Susan’s nodding. I’m sure Susan has had plenty of those moments as well. And we pushed through them, right? And I think we are a little stubborn, and we are willing to put everything behind it, and we didn’t back down. And I think that is 100% required if you’re ever going to give anything like this a shot.

Susan Fernandez:

I agree with both of that. I think it really is about knowing what your vision is. People have a vague, I want to own a business, I want to work at a company and be successful. But how are you going to get there and what is your vision? And going back to becoming a part of UpSpring, so much of what I wanted was beyond material things. I mean, life is just not about that. I wanted that satisfaction, that feeling of being a part of this brilliant company, doing great things. And that to me is what felt like success. So, I worked with a lot of coaches and they really wanted me to 10 times my business and look at it from a very different perspective.

So, for me, success was becoming a part of this, and that really allowed me to focus on… I was building this business on my own. It’s very difficult to do that. You don’t have anyone to bounce anything off of. Every idea, every decision is yours. And when I realized what was propelling me forward, it wasn’t something that I was going to be able to scale on my own, nor did I want to. So, I think really having an idea of what success looks like for you. So, some people, they want to start a business.

They want to be acquired or merge, or they’re going to do it a little while, and then that positions them for the right senior level role in a company that they have their eye on. There’s a million things or reasons you can do it, but I think really being clear on what you want and then having that grit and determination will most of the time get you there. But luck definitely helps.

Caroline Saba:

I love that. Amazing. Thank you all for having this conversation. This has been nothing short of inspiring.

Sarah Terzic:

Thank you.

Susan Fernandez:

Thank you so much.

Tiffany Rafii:

Thank you, Caroline.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for listening in with us today. We hope you leave inspired by the ideas in today’s episode. For more, follow UpSpring on LinkedIn and Instagram. And don’t forget to check out the amazing lineup of shows brought to you by the SURROPUND podcast network at surroundpodcast.com.