{"id":5724,"date":"2023-04-18T04:01:31","date_gmt":"2023-04-18T04:01:31","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/surroundpodcasts.com\/?post_type=surround_episodes&#038;p=5724"},"modified":"2023-04-18T18:33:47","modified_gmt":"2023-04-18T18:33:47","slug":"ep-189-clodagh-on-the-twist-turns-of-her-extraordinary-life-career","status":"publish","type":"surround_episodes","link":"https:\/\/surroundpodcasts.com\/episodes\/ep-189-clodagh-on-the-twist-turns-of-her-extraordinary-life-career\/","title":{"rendered":"Clodagh on the Twist &#038; Turns of Her Extraordinary Life &#038; Career"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-post\" data-elementor-id=\"5724\" class=\"elementor elementor-5724\" data-elementor-post-type=\"surround_episodes\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-15fb0b2c elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"15fb0b2c\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_has_onepagescroll_dot&quot;:&quot;yes&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-5091c49d\" data-id=\"5091c49d\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-676d5ab5 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"676d5ab5\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_we_effect_on&quot;:&quot;none&quot;}\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Interior designer, Clodagh, grew up in the Irish countryside running barefoot through the woods, riding horses, and rebelling. A near death experience lit a fire in her to pursue fashion and she opened her first shop at age 17. After a career pivot and 50+ years of designing spaces that make people feel good, she\u2019s considered a true pioneer in biophilic and sustainable design, and a living legend.<\/p><p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.cleverpodcast.com\/blog\/ep-189-clodagh\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Images, links and more from Clodagh on cleverpodcast.com!<\/a><\/p><p>Please say Hi on social! <a href=\"http:\/\/twitter.com\/CleverPodcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Twitter<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.instagram.com\/cleverpodcast\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Instagram<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.facebook.com\/cleverpodcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Facebook<\/a> &#8211; @CleverPodcast, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/amydevers\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">@amydevers<\/a>,<\/p><p>If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider <a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/clever\/id1106679693?mt=2\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">leaving a review<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.cleverpodcast.com\/sponsor-support\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">making a donation, becoming a sponsor<\/a>, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you!<\/p><p>Clever is hosted &amp; produced by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cleverpodcast.com\/about\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Amy Devers<\/a>, with editing by <a href=\"https:\/\/about.me\/stroffolino\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Rich Stroffolino<\/a>, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by <a href=\"https:\/\/www.elteneleven.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">El Ten Eleven<\/a>.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-efc7597 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"efc7597\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_has_onepagescroll_dot&quot;:&quot;yes&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-8400468\" data-id=\"8400468\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-51b1330 elementor-widget elementor-widget-html\" data-id=\"51b1330\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_we_effect_on&quot;:&quot;none&quot;}\" data-widget_type=\"html.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<iframe allow=\"autoplay *; encrypted-media *; fullscreen *; clipboard-write\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"175\" style=\"width:100%;max-width:100%;overflow:hidden;border-radius:10px;\" sandbox=\"allow-forms allow-popups allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-storage-access-by-user-activation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation\" src=\"https:\/\/embed.podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/ep-189-clodagh-on-the-twist-turns-of-her\/id1106679693?i=1000609421610\"><\/iframe>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-d764ef7 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"d764ef7\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_has_onepagescroll_dot&quot;:&quot;yes&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-5d385fe\" data-id=\"5d385fe\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-inner-section elementor-element elementor-element-508cc6b4 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"508cc6b4\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_has_onepagescroll_dot&quot;:&quot;yes&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-inner-column elementor-element elementor-element-9656804\" data-id=\"9656804\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-56a2d226 elementor-widget elementor-widget-html\" data-id=\"56a2d226\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_we_effect_on&quot;:&quot;none&quot;}\" data-widget_type=\"html.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<!-- start accordion closed -->\r\n<script>\r\njQuery(document).ready(function($) {\r\nvar delay = 100; setTimeout(function() {\r\n$('.elementor-tab-title').removeClass('elementor-active');\r\n $('.elementor-tab-content').css('display', 'none'); }, delay);\r\n});\r\n<\/script>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-3bcebf5d elementor-widget elementor-widget-accordion\" data-id=\"3bcebf5d\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-settings=\"{&quot;ekit_we_effect_on&quot;:&quot;none&quot;}\" data-widget_type=\"accordion.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-accordion-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-title-1001\" class=\"elementor-tab-title\" data-tab=\"1\" role=\"button\" aria-controls=\"elementor-tab-content-1001\" aria-expanded=\"false\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon elementor-accordion-icon-left\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-closed\"><i class=\"fas fa-plus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-accordion-icon-opened\"><i class=\"fas fa-minus\"><\/i><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-accordion-title\" tabindex=\"0\">Transcript<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"elementor-tab-content-1001\" class=\"elementor-tab-content elementor-clearfix\" data-tab=\"1\" role=\"region\" aria-labelledby=\"elementor-tab-title-1001\"><p>Amy Devers:\u00a0\u00a0 Hi everyone, I\u2019m Amy Devers and this is Clever, Today I\u2019m talking to the legendary Clodagh. Born in 1940, Clodagh grew up in the Irish countryside (in what was once Oscar Wilde\u2019s home.) She embarked on her first career chapter as a fashion designer, when at the young age of 17, she opened a couture salon in Dublin. She jokes that In 1970s she changed husbands, countries, and careers when, after having 3 children, achieving global success in the fashion industry, and getting a hard-won divorce, she moved to Spain, remarried, and found her true calling as an Interior designer. She moved countries again in the 1980\u2019s setting up her own studio in New York city. Now, having been a design powerhouse for 50+ years she\u2019s completed projects all over the world, including multi-family residences, hotels and spas, yachts, private jets, and more\u2026A renowned pioneer of sustainable and biophilic design, she\u2019s always cared most about how her spaces make people <em>feel<\/em>, and as such she\u2019s earned a reputation for being somewhat of a healer by way of design. And she\u2019s been vegan since the 80s. As the subject of 2 separate documentaries, she\u2019s led a remarkable life &#8211; full of ups, downs, twists, turns and near death experiences\u2026 It\u2019s a wild ride, full of grit, heart, wisdom and humor\u2026 here\u2019s Clodagh<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 My name is Clodagh; I live upstate New York and I work in Manhattan where I have my studio. I\u2019m a multifaceted designer. Not an interior designer, I design anything that\u2019s handed to me to design. (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That is a special, special talent, very fluid. Let\u2019s talk about how you got to be this multifaceted designer and to do that I would love to go all the way back to the formative years. Can you talk to me about your childhood in the West of Ireland.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I was born in the West of Ireland, County Mayo. Brought up in Oscar Wilde\u2019s country home, Moytura House, the banks of Lough Corrib. I had an interesting family, there were actually in the end three children, I\u2019m the youngest from a mother who actually was quite avant-garde in her way because she drove a sports car. One of the first women actually to drive in Ireland. She had an art show and she rode fast horses, side saddle in cross country competitions. This was before I was born she did all these things. No, by the time I came along she was actually very quiet, a very different person.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Was her avant-garde spirit an inspiration to you?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I didn\u2019t know she was avant-garde until I was much older (laughs)\u2026<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She had settled down.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She had really settled down, yes, she was very quiet. My father really did nothing very much at all, he didn\u2019t have a job or anything like that. We were basically downwardly mobile, country gentle people. (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, I don\u2019t have a lot of reference for that in my life.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, most people don\u2019t. My father bred dogs. He had what they called a \u2018gentleman\u2019s farm.\u2019 We would row out to Lough Corrib to an island and have a picnic with a row dog swimming behind us with their noses making Vs in the water. We had some cows and we had neighbors, we\u2019re near <a href=\"https:\/\/ashfordcastle.com\/\">Ashford Castle<\/a>, which is one of the most beautiful castles in Ireland. We used to go over there sometimes as a huge treat. And then because we were downwardly mobile, we changed homes and went to a smaller one in Sligo. That was my first time going to school.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 In living in <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Oscar_Wilde\">Oscar Wilde<\/a>\u2019s country home, did you sense the history, did you feel his presence?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I was too small to feel Oscar\u2019s presence, but I felt it later, because my brother and sister were older and my brother gave me a book called the epigram of Oscar Wilde when I was about eight, I think. And I have lived on his quotes (laughs) for the rest of my life. I collect quotes like other people collect jewelry and stuff like that, we even have a quote wall in our studio. I\u2019m very inspired by words. Always been inspired by words.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So what kinds of things captured your youthful imagination?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I was a very wild child, not on drugs or anything like that, just wondering around the woods and\u2026Very much on my own, very much on my own. I didn\u2019t have any friends until we actually went to Sligo when I was sent to school<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How old were you when that happened?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think eight.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s a long time to be on your own in the woods.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 (Laughs) Well, the woods actually brought me so much, the changing light and shadow, [0.05.00] the mossy floors, the changing light in Ireland. The sheen on the horses and the cows, you know, I got my first horse in Sligo, I didn\u2019t get a horse, I actually adopted a horse in a field. It was grazing there. And just jumped on his back (laughs).<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That sounds amazing. It also sounds to me, tell me I\u2019m wrong, but growing up like that, you would have become very attuned to the cycles of nature and just the sort of natural rhythms of the earth, maybe more so than somebody who is brought up in a more sort of noisy, city type of area?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, very much so. I didn\u2019t wear shoes in the summer, my mother would yell at me, so I\u2019d take them off when I was out of sight. So I was doing early earthing, you might say right? They have little patches now where you can earth. The seasons were very important to me. Also roaming around the fields, you found wild blackberries and wild raspberries and nuts and stuff like that. I was an early forester you might say. Then my father had his organic garden, if you even mentioned the word \u2018chemical,\u2019 he went up in smoke, so I was also very early green.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, this is all checking out in the research I did on you. (Laughter) Tell me about your teenage years, you have this avant-garde mother, but you didn\u2019t really know she was avant-garde. You described your family as downwardly mobile and you as a bit feral. So I\u2019m wondering if you had a mind of your own, if you had a rebellious streak? If your creativity was manifesting?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 When I went to my first school in Sligo, I was a pretty defiant kid because when they moved me from the class, from kindergarten to the first class, they said I was the youngest kid in the class and they wouldn\u2019t move me. So I rebelled and I stormed home and said I wouldn\u2019t go back to school anymore. (Laughs) I walked the whole way home and in the end the headmaster came out and apologized to me, so I went back. I always remember his name was Mr Blackburn and he must have been about 10 feet high to me, but probably over six feet. I absolutely rebelled.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow, leadership skills were getting forged early on.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, rebellion certainly. (Laughter) Since I was the smallest child, it\u2019s not fair, wait for me, until they wouldn\u2019t keep up.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 When you did rebel like this, did you have the backup of your parents, did you feel supported?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well my mother had, if I had one of my \u2018it\u2019s not fair\u2019 rages and slammed the bedroom door, would make toast and tea and leave it outside the door, and scones, to mollify me through food, like a little dog. (Laughter) But they didn\u2019t know how to talk to me, no. They were both brought up in a highly non-communicative households. And the story behind it and the reasons why nobody talked that much is that my father actually eloped with his son\u2019s fianc\u00e9, and they got cut off from both their families. (Laughs) We were the children of that\u2026<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So there was some scandal underscoring the whole family unit?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, but we didn\u2019t know that, not until a lot later.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So does that mean you were sort of disconnected then from your extended family?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely, yeah.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So you also had a pretty epic horseback riding accident [0.10.00] in your teenage years and you broke your back in three places and it laid you up in bed for months. I\u2019m interested in this time in your life. I mean it\u2019s usually pretty pivotal when someone faces their own mortality like that at a young age. But also I know this is also a time when you kind of made a choice about your future. So can you talk to me about this time?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I actually was a child who got into horrible accidents even before that happened. I cut my wrist when I was about five, I fell on a glass bowl and my nanny left me bleeding, she was so frightened, and I nearly bled out.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh my gosh.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I had a burst appendix when I was three and nearly died. (Laughs)<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 My father gave me a horse and he was saddle shy, it meant he didn\u2019t like a saddle being put on him. And I was supposed to lunge him when I came home from boarding school. And I didn\u2019t, I got up on him, and I put the saddle on and got up and he just flew and started bucking like you\u2019ve seen in the rodeos. And he actually snapped the leather straps that hold the girth to the saddle and the saddle and I flew onto hard ground. I was lying there, I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve ever had the breath knocked out of your body, you kind of can\u2019t breathe.\u00a0 I was lying there and there was a kind of seer, I suppose you could call him, called Old John who used to wander around the country fields, would give you jars of nettle things and stuff if you were sick. And he came along when I was lying on the ground and he looked down at me, not even offering to help me to get up. He said, \u201cIf you live until you\u2019re 24, you might die at 24, you will be a healer, but not in the medical sense.\u201d And with that he actually walked off. (Laughs) And I managed to get myself up somehow and crawl down to the house. But that always lives on in my mind.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What a prophecy, that is wild, and you had never met this person before?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh I had, I\u2019d seen him wandering around the fields, he\u2019d sometimes come to the house with yellow liquids for my mother, who had problems with her health. But I\u2019d never talked to him. But he just stood and looked down and he said that, and it was really quite a strange moment for me.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Did it resonate, did it ring true? Did you have some sort of knowing that it was accurate or did it worry you that you were going to die at 24?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, yeah, the dying at 24 resonated plenty. I married my first husband when I was 21 but I told him, I said, \u201cYou may lose me at 24,\u201d (laughs) so when my 24<sup>th<\/sup> birthday came up, I was kind of wondering. But as you can hear and see, I\u2019m right here.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 With this potential short timespan left to live, do you think you maximized the life you did have? Did it put some urgency into your decisions?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, he said if I didn\u2019t die at 24, I\u2019d live quite a long life. But I had previous accidents and I\u2019ve always felt life is tenuous and you should use every minute.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, well, while you were laid up you saw an ad in the Irish Times that said \u2018why not be a dress designer,\u2019 and you thought to yourself, why not. So you set your sights on becoming a fashion designer, but you also knew this would be a really controversial choice in your family?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 My father\u2019s brother who was still talking to the family, had more degrees than anybody else in the world in Trinity College, Dublin. So my father had decided that since I was studying Latin, and I was very good at mathematics, that I would become a professor in classics and mathematics at Trinity College like Uncle Charlie. And he decided what my brother would be and my sister would be, our careers were mapped out. None of us did (laughs)\u2026 none of us followed. So I was lying on my back and my mother decided to keep me at home rather than put me in a hospital for five months. I saw the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.irishtimes.com\/\">Irish Times<\/a>, it was the only newspaper we were allowed to read. Our reading was very edited also and I was lying on my back and I saw an ad saying, \u2018why not be a fashion designer.\u2019 And I don\u2019t know why, but I thought why not? (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Clicked.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Maybe it\u2019s my motto, \u2018why not,\u2019 amongst others. (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So\u2026 I mean that was the spark, but you still have to go through with what you know is going to be a controversial decision, defying your fathers map for your career and maybe going into a career that he\u2019s not as excited about. How did you sort of rally your motivation to rebel once again?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, what happened was that I had to go in and tell him and he was always seated at a roll-top desk, something I do remember (laughs). And when I told him he said, \u201cNobody in our family has ever gone into trade,\u2019 saying TRADE in capital letters. (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Ah, so it was a class thing?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh totally yes, totally. I don\u2019t want to see or hear from you again if you\u2019re going to go on with that.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh wow, that\u2019s a rejection, that must have hurt?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I was sort of already fairly immune, my mother on the contrary said, \u201cI\u2019ll help you.\u201d She said, \u201cI\u2019ll give you some money and we\u2019ll help to rent you a flat in Dublin and see how you get on.\u201d The ad was from the Grafton Academy of Dress Design and they were offering a compressed course. And she said, \u201cI\u2019ll pay for that and I\u2019ll give you some money.\u201d She gave me \u00a3400 and off I went.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Knowing that you were to be estranged from your father forever more?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Knowing that he didn\u2019t really want to see me again. But then what happened was, when I had my first fashion show, it was in the Irish Times\u2026<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes? Yes!<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 With a nice headline and suddenly\u2026I was back home again.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, you were welcomed once you were acknowledged by the Irish Times?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly, exactly.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You did find success in fashion almost immediately. Did you also find that your creative passion was ignited and you enjoyed the process of garment construction and draping and textile choices and all the science and artistry of fashion?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh, I loved it and I opened my tiny atelier with the courage born of total ignorance. No idea what I was getting into. I mean it was so bad that when my bank manager called and asked to see my books, I said, \u201cMr Mooney, why do you want to know what I\u2019m reading?\u201d (Laughter) Because money was not spoken about in our family. (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Did Mr Mooney set you straight, did you help you?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 He set me straight, he was very kindly.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And you\u2019re 17 years old at this time?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m 17, yeah. And the first client who walked up the stairs because I had hung out my shingle, said, \u201cI\u2019d like to meet the designer, I want to commission an overcoat.\u201d And I said, \u201cI am the designer,\u201d and she said, \u201cYou look very young. How old are you?\u201d I said, \u201cSeventeen.\u201d There was a long pause and she said, \u201cThat\u2019s too young, come back when you\u2019re a little older and have some experience.\u201d And with that she walked down the stairs leaving me knowing that I would never tell anybody my age ever again because I\u2019d either be too young or too old. (Laughs) And she came back, she did come back.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 She did?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I got a lot more publicity, she came back, I made her an amazing white, mohair coat, made her a ballgown (laughs) and we laughed about it. She came back about three years later.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So starting off so young and self-admittedly na\u00efve, I guess, about running a business\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How about ignorant. (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What do you attribute your entrepreneurial spirit to and your business acumen? It wasn\u2019t just sheer creative genius, I\u2019m sure there was a fair amount of that, and hard work, but you did achieve quite a bit of international success and acclaim and that means you have to not go out of business?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, what happened was actually, at my first fashion show there were some buyers in from the States and they\u2019d heard about me and my fashion show. It was a fundraiser for the Irish Cancer Society in a very smart hotel. They ferreted me out and gave me some business. I started to export. And the Irish Export Board at that point was very supportive and helped me. When they had the shows in New York, they shot me over and they paid some supplementary money to the designers. Then of course we helped exports, because we used Irish tweed and Irish linen.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That sounds like a pretty sweet relationship. So you got some wind in your sails\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Right and then you got deposits on the orders, on the purchasing from <a href=\"https:\/\/lordandtaylor.com\/\">Lord &amp; Taylor<\/a> and Bonwit, all of the big department stores. And then we\u2019d export it to Australia, England, all over. It happened very fast actually, it was nice.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Were you growing your studio as well, like hiring employees and\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I had a couple of employees immediately. Then I had a sewing team, but also I licensed, I licensed to a tweed company from Germany, the suits were made in Ireland to a jersey knit company. (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, during this chapter of your career, when you were growing your fashion design business and brand, you also married and had three children.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s right.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So that\u2019s a lot! And while your children buoyed your spirit, your marriage started to feel like a trap and I know from your documentary you described this time in Irish history as leaving women very disadvantaged when it came to divorce law.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 There wasn\u2019t divorce law.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So you had very few options for reclaiming your life in a way that also allowed you to retain custody. So this was a hard decision. But you worked it out and got a legal separation and you\u2019ve said in the 70s that you changed husbands, countries and careers.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s exactly what I did! (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s big! And it also is the precursor to you finding your calling as a multifaceted designer of not just fashion, but interior spaces as you say, anything that anybody puts in front of you. So I wonder if you can talk to me about this really pivotal time in your life?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I wanted to put my unhappiness behind me. I had a lot of publicity because being very young and being Irish, it helped for publicity internationally and presumably the clothes were reasonably good too. So I had a huge trunk full of press clippings and magazines and places where I\u2019d appeared in. When I decided to leave Ireland, I got my legal separation, which meant I could have joint custody of the children. I had, it was a store warehouse [0.25.00], where they stored furniture and so on. I had this huge trunk there and I went to the warehouse and I said to the guys, \u201cWould you take the trunk out please into the garden.\u201d I said, \u201cDo you have a match?\u201d I flamb\u00e9ed all my press clippings and everything. It went up in flames and it felt great. (Laughs)Some people burn their boats, and I burned my publicity. (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Why did you need to shed that?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I don\u2019t know, you could have asked me then, I might have known, I don\u2019t know now, but it felt great, and it still feels great.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What happened after that? You made a clean break, it sounds like, both spiritually and geographically, with your fashion career and your ex-husband, where did you go from there and how did you find your gifts as an interior designer, among other things?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, what happened was my husband had a house in Spain and\u2026<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 This is your second husband, Daniel?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, yeah, we got married and he had a house in Spain and he also had an apartment in New York and so I went to New York first and the boys joined us, we had a townhouse and we had a good time in New York, but then Daniel decided, what he really wanted to do was go to Spain. And I had nothing holding me in New York. I\u2019d had my last fashion show in Ireland, which of course was all black, what else would it be? (Laughter) So that last fashion show was,, was like burning the trunk, it was a little element of mourning I suppose in it too.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It sounds like it, a little bit of dark humor, a little bit of grief, a little bit of mourning\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 My kids are very funny and we all laugh a lot, so can\u2019t take anything too seriously. My husband decided he wanted to stop his career, which he was a screenwriter and go to Spain, go to live in Spain. So I said okay. We found a townhouse in this old city of Almeria, one of the last Moorish outposts of Spain, with a huge Alcasava and so on. And we bought a townhouse and we found an architect and I said to Daniel, \u201cI don\u2019t speak a word of Spanish,\u2019 because he\u2019s multilingual and it was embarrassing. I said, \u201cI\u2019ll tell you what I\u2019ll do, I\u2019ll take care of the house, and you go off doing what you\u2019re doing and I\u2019ll try to learn Spanish while I\u2019m doing it.\u201d That\u2019s what I did. And I found the architect and he didn\u2019t know how people live. (Laughs) He was all about architecture and not about living and I kept saying, Antonio this and you can\u2019t do that and no, you can\u2019t put the kitchen at the end of that, you can\u2019t walk through the living room from the dining room to get to the kitchen, stuff like that. I kept drawing over his drawings and then when the time came to\u2026 we were ready to move in, I was literally standing in the living room and these huge shutters were open on the old square. The birds were singing outside and a light came in and hit my shoulder and I realized what I wanted to be.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You\u2019ve had some real moments of life defining clarity.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I had no doubt in my mind.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Wow.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So I said when he came back, I said, \u201cI need the places on the streets, the studio that\u2019s on the street, for retail space, I want that, and I\u2019m going to start a design business.\u201d<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Hot damn! So I\u2019m going to ask you, you\u2019re older than 24 at this point, so you\u2019re safely assured that you\u2019re going to live a long life?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes, I\u2019m older than 24, the 24 happened with my first husband. I\u2019 m already early 30s.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So backing up a little bit, when you passed the 24 mark with your first husband and you knew you were going to live a long life, did that also escalate the feeling of being trapped<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Once I got over 24 I didn\u2019t think about how long I\u2019d live, I just got over that thought. The 24, I must admit, the night before my 24<sup>th<\/sup> birthday I was thinking, is this it? (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh my gosh! Okay, so you throw up your shingle as an interior designer in Spain, still learning Spanish and\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I didn\u2019t say \u2018interior design,\u2019 I said \u2018design.\u2019<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Design, okay, you\u2019re deliberately agnostic about all of your offerings.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So what were the first few projects like and how quickly did you, get your rhythm and feel your confidence in this new area of practice?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, the first thing that happened was, I hung up my shingle, this happened very much as when I was in fashion, there was a ring on the doorbell of the house and I went down, there\u2019s this gorgeous Spanish guy standing there and he said, \u201cAre you the English designer? I heard about you.\u201d And I said, \u201cNo, I\u2019m the Irish designer,\u201d and he said, \u201cWell, that\u2019s close enough!\u201d And he actually spoke English, he said, \u201cWould you do my English bar in Roquetas de Mar, which was about 40 minutes drive away. I said, \u201cOf course!\u201d He said, \u201cCan you come down tomorrow?\u201d Yes I can. And then I went upstairs, my husband was upstairs and I said, \u201cI think I\u2019m out of my freaking mind!\u201d (Laughs) And he said, \u201cJust do it.\u201d (Laughter) So the imposter syndrome was sitting on my left shoulder during this, but I did get into the car and go down and see the bar and decide what to do with it. The architect liked me and he gave me one of his houses to do and it kind of went from there. I\u2019ve always felt that I should hire people who are better than myself because I realize I\u2019m very untaught, I\u2019ve had no real formal training in anything, just my few weeks pattern cutting design at the Grafton Academy before I opened my fashion business, that was weeks. So the imposter syndrome comes and sits on my shoulder and says, \u201cAre you really up for this?\u201d (Laughs) But then my t-shirt says, \u2018Why not\u2019 (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Has the imposter syndrome gone away now that you\u2019re 50 years into it, you\u2019ve clearly proven yourself?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, it never goes away. The imposter syndrome is terrific because it sits on my shoulder and says, each thing you do you have to be better than the last thing than you did. We really work incredibly hard to make sure that every aspect of design is addressed in everything we do.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, so that sounds like it not only keeps you on your toes in terms of getting better and better and better, but it also keeps you hiring really high standard individuals on your team, if your policy is to hire people who are better at something than you are.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 They\u2019re probably better at everything. I have an incredible team. I have the most incredible team.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That is amazing and I\u2019m really happy to hear that and we all know that doing the volume and scale of project that you\u2019re doing, you can\u2019t possibly do it alone. But I think the way one cultivates a culture and a team and mutual success for everyone is a really important part of the practice and it sounds like you feel that way too.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well also they\u2019re my teachers in a sense. The first architect I hired in Spain, she was taking a year off from Liverpool University and she was studying environmental and solar and wind energy. (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Cool!<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 A native plants (laughs), I mean literally the first person who sat down at the table with me to discuss design. [0.35.00] I think the first time I used the Scale Rule was with her there.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The universe has brought you some amazing people.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It really has.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You\u2019ve been in this chapter of your career for over 50 years and your practice is global in reach with projects all over the world and very broad in scope in terms of the types of projects and objects and products and spaces that you do, multi-family residences, hotels, spas, yachts, private jets. You can tell me more, I\u2019m sure there\u2019s even more than that. I\u2019m wondering after all of this under your belt now, what has remained consistent and what would you say has evolved?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The consistent thing is that I\u2019m dealing with people, people the same senses, passions, affections\u2026<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, the humanity.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Humanity, humanity has certain needs and that hasn\u2019t changed. So when I was in fashion I was very careful when I was designing my clothes that the clothes moved carefully with people, they were comfortable to sit in. You didn\u2019t sit down and it was too tight, your skirt or something like that. I did a traveling wardrobe for the wife of the president of Ireland and she went to Africa, and to integrate heat and I studied what she could wear that would make her most comfortable. And that\u2019s the vision and mission I carry on, whether it\u2019s\u2026 whether it\u2019s your bed, your furniture, the way your door opens and closes. (Laughs) I want to make people feel good.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That makes a lot of sense.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And that\u2019s the nicest thing somebody can say to me when they move into their place or move into their multi-family residence and I see people are looking happy and using things the way they should be used.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Because it means they\u2019re in rhythm, they\u2019re feeling at one with the space.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly, yeah, exactly, we work with all the senses because your senses inform your emotions. So we check all the senses and we hope they feel well in our spaces, balanced and happy, they can breathe easily. It\u2019s very important.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It is, it\u2019s very, very important. So I appreciate that about your philosophy and your practice. What would you say has evolved or what were the unexpected surprises along the way? I\u2019m wondering if there\u2019s anything you found you were getting into that you had to shed or that you had to actively stop doing or if there\u2019s some aspect of your own talent that was uncovered, that you didn\u2019t know you had?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Maybe a talent to be bossy. (Laughter) When I got my first big job here, you know, I remember sitting in a conference room with like 20 people, men in suits (laughs) and I realized I couldn\u2019t be sucking my thumb there and being shy. So I learned that I could speak up.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I like it. Okay, I would love for you to help me understand your creative process. I\u2019m fascinated by what you\u2019ve talked about already, about how you make sure to appeal to all of the senses and make sure to design emotional comfort into the spaces. You\u2019ve said that you\u2019ve always been a champion of techniques like feng shui, chromatherapy, biogeometry, biophilia, which I think is wonderful. You really are a healer, just not in the medical sense. Your modality is design. Can you get granular on that with me? What does the step-by-step start with in terms of implementing all of this?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well it depends what it is because we also help people to brand and to interpret their brands. So in a sense we\u2019ve become chameleons to the brand. (Laughs) It\u2019s very important to us\u2026 we\u2019re working with individuals and private residents, you\u2019re working very tightly with a family or you know, a couple of whatever it is, or a single person. And you\u2019re interpreting, you\u2019re kind of an interpreter, you\u2019re a listener, I liken it almost to being a good travel guide. A good travel guide takes you to places that you\u2019ve heard about but then they take you to places that you haven\u2019t heard about, that they want to show you. And I feel we\u2019re kind of travel guides.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, but it\u2019s all informed by having done the active listening and observing, so you\u2019re taking them some place they may not know about but that you intuit that they would want to go to.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly, exactly, exactly. When we\u2019re traveling, if we\u2019re going to a new job that\u2019s out of say Manhattan, or a big city, we do what we call \u2018dry sponge\/wet sponge\u2019 in the studio. We get on a flight and we fly over dry sponges, and we soak up the environments and soak up everything and come back wet sponges. (Laughs) And then squeeze that onto the work. (Laughter) If you\u2019re doing a hotel, for instance, in a country, you want to get the contextual references, everything, the music, you listen to the music, go to Portugal, we listen to Fado, we go to the museums, we go out on a farm, so we are trying to get it. What is this? It\u2019s a hotel, somebody is traveling there, you don\u2019t want to dump down a box, a perfectly functioning box that doesn\u2019t relate contextually to the country it\u2019s being built in. We rootle out weavers and painters and we do art consulting, so we try to get local artists honored by putting them in the project.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s beautiful,. And in a way I\u2019m just thinking about this, it makes the\u2026 maybe even the hotel feel porous and I mean porous in that it is breathing with the locale.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s a nice way of putting it. Often at an opening, we have the artist, the local artist come and stand in front of their work. We did a spa and hotel in Pennsylvania where we did that, each artist stood in front of their art.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s so lovely. I\u2019m happy to hear that, that\u2019s beautiful, I have a real affection for artisans and crafts people of all calibers. You mentioned that you\u2019ve buried buckets of crystals in the earth on job sites, can you tell me a little bit more about how you assess that the land or the site needs a bit of energy healing?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I try to use feng shui, a feng shui master, a biogeometrist on each project.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What\u2019s biogeometry?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s an ancient Egyptian method of assessing what the waves are coming from the earth, what\u2019s toxic or non-toxic. But it\u2019s the same as feng shui, really it\u2019s all about energy. I\u2019m very often, not very often, but I walk into a place sometimes and I don\u2019t feel it\u2019s a happy place.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I know that feeling, it\u2019s awful. It\u2019s very claustrophobic.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, sometimes there\u2019s a darkness that comes and since I\u2019m open to everything, I guess I pick it up. I remember we were given a basement to design for somebody and I could barely breathe in there and it turned out that three people had hanged themselves in there.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oh wow.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s when our feng shui master came in and you could actually feel the energy peeling away, it was lovely to actually experience that. It\u2019s happened to me on a couple of jobs where I\u2019ve been there when the ceremony was happening and the items were being put in and it\u2019s tangible. I think what I\u2019m trying to say here, we\u2019re trying to make the invisible tangible, the invisible, the air, the energy, good energy tangible.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I hear you, that makes sense and it\u2019s something that because it\u2019s so ineffable, it\u2019s something that a lot of people don\u2019t know how to put words around. But I\u2019ve definitely been in spaces where I could tell there was a darkness, a real heaviness, a real uncomfortable energy and I didn\u2019t have a reason for it because it would be like one hotel room in a whole hotel. And so I\u2019d switch to a different hotel room and the energy was different. And so I\u2019m wondering, conversely, I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve been in spaces where the energy felt magical or where there was a deep sense of most sacredness baked into the site or even the walls of a longstanding structure. Are there times then when you seek to preserve energy as well, or not disturb it?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s just there, yeah, exactly. (Laughs) I don\u2019t have to do anything. I\u2019d still have my feng shui master or a biogeometry guy just assess some of the areas around it. But I\u2019ve gone to places that I\u2019ve really felt incredibly happy.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Has that informed your decision not to move walls and things or no?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sometimes, it does sometimes.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 With so many projects and so diverse in terms of their output from branding to commercial to residential\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And also we have a licensing division and art consulting, yeah.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m wondering how do you and how do you in the studio, how do you measure success? How do you know when you\u2019re onto it and when it\u2019s going to turn out the way you want it to or even after the project is completed, you can measure the impact?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, we\u2019ve been told that some of our multi-family buildings, the units sell and rent much faster than what they call the \u2018competition.\u2019 I don\u2019t believe in competition, I\u2019m like Rudolf Nureyev, he said, \u201cWhat is this I\u2019m always trying to dance better than myself?<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Is it on your quote wall?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s on my quote wall, yeah. (Laughs) I have one quote that I try to read at least once a week. \u201cThe ancient Egyptians believed that upon death they would be asked two questions. Their answers would determine whether they could continue to their journey in the afterlife. First question was: Did you bring joy? The second was: Did you find joy?\u201d That always makes me teary when I read it.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I felt that.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s like that little monk Tich Nhat Hanh said, if you meet somebody in the street and you feel happier after you\u2019ve met them, they\u2019ve handed you some happiness, it\u2019s like that.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It also really, really prioritizes the most important thing, doesn\u2019t it, just so clearly, is being in the giving and receiving cycle of joy.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Exactly, exactly! One of my mottos is to give something away every day and it sounds difficult, but actually it\u2019s very easy. There\u2019s always something (laughs).<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What have you given away today?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I\u2019m giving my time to you.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes! And sharing your story with me, this is joyful. (Laughter) If you don\u2019t mind, I would love to ask you a few questions that are not work related, but are a little bit more about the wisdom that you have, having lived your exceptional life. You had a father that sounds like you weren\u2019t very close with and who was willing to cut you out of his life. Two husbands, one who sought to rein you in, or maybe of a more conservative mindset. And then another one that, a long glorious marriage, it sounds like, proved to be an ally in your self-actualization. And you\u2019ve raised three sons. Not only that, but you\u2019ve built careers during times when it was still considered very trailblazing for women to be as entrepreneurial and head of the shop as you were, and are. And famously, Clodagh, with no last name, no surname that\u2019s attached to a man.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I can explain that one. When you have your exam, when you\u2019re leaving pre-college exam, but you do it in a hall, in this case in Dublin, were students from various schools who are there for the exam, the leaving certificate, are sitting all around you. There was a balcony in the hall, which some teachers were sitting up there, people who were running the show for the exam and monitoring it. And they called out our names and they said, \u201cPut your hand up when your name is called.\u201d Are you ready for this? Clodagh Fionnuala Maev De Sillary Phipps. I resolved there and then I would only have one name for the rest of my life, that was it! I could feel my blush now. (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, so my question around all this sort of\u2026 all these male figures in your life. I\u2019m wondering if you\u2019ve given much thought to how your personal and professional spirit, and success, and all of the volume of work and joy that is in the wake of all that you\u2019re doing, all of your creativity, I\u2019m wondering if you\u2019ve given much thought to how it\u2019s rippled out through the patriarchal framework of society and reorganized it a little bit or made lasting impacts?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think it\u2019s hard to say. I do deal with\u2026many or more male clients as I have female clients. I think it\u2019s all shifted and changed in the States, particularly. I was brought up Irish Protestant, nothing is more uptight, you know. (Laughs) I think the guys are a little daunted sometimes by female success. That\u2019s changing. I feel that men are more respectful of financial success. I would go as far as to say that\u2026<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 More likely to listen to you and take you seriously and maybe even take orders from you. To give you the credit of your credibility.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 But maybe I just invented that, I don\u2019t know.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I love the guys (laughs)\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I had all boys, you know.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s one of the things why I brought that up is because it\u2019s not a love it or hate it kind of situation. It\u2019s much more glorious and complex, the sort of movement of the universe and the dynamic of male\/female dynamic, trying to seek balance.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And we\u2019re the production units of society, production units of humanity.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Does it feel safe to claim your feminine power and legacy? You\u2019ve certainly earned it. Does it feel safe?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Totally. I don\u2019t feel that I have to claim them, I think they\u2019re just there. I do think a lot about women being the production units of humanity. The amount of time that it takes to make a baby, then bring up the baby and you know, all that stuff. There\u2019s that secondary line of work that women have that men don\u2019t have. They have part of it, obviously, but the babysitter isn\u2019t all the stuff we go through.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Do you have grandchildren?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I have grandchildren and I\u2019ve got a great-granddaughter. My youngest son married very young and I have a great-granddaughter in Australia actually, she\u2019s three.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 How wonderful.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I had all my babies before I was 27, so I was a very young grandmother.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You\u2019ve taken a lot of leaps of faith throughout your life. Some of them you\u2019ve said were out of sheer ignorance\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes. (Laughs) You laugh, but it\u2019s true.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No, I believe it. Some people don\u2019t have the same instinct as you do, to leap without looking. And I\u2019m wondering what you attribute that to. Like deep down, does it sort of come from a kind of faith or a kind of intuition or trust in yourself or are you actually maybe even running from something and need to escape?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that when you\u2019re the smallest child and you\u2019re a child of older parents, you\u2019re on your own a lot. So you have to figure it out on your own basically.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 You just got really comfortable figuring things out? That makes a lot of sense to me.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I really didn\u2019t have any option.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, but when you have that sort of mindset and toolkit, then I think it would build trust in yourself that you could get yourself into situations and still figure it out.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I would love to design a prison, because I think that we would help society a lot if we made prisons more healing spaces.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I 100% agree. Clodagh, you have to do that!<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I would love to.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I think that\u2019s amazing and I think we need it, I think especially\u2026 I don\u2019t know about any other countries, but the incarceration system is not humane.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s not humane and I think that we could heal people while they\u2019re in jail, there\u2019s ways of doing things. I\u2019m doing dog training with my tiny dog at the moment and it\u2019s all about treats and joy. (Laughs) It stops her chewing up things.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 No but seriously, if incarcerated folks were\u2026 their humanity was honored, their places were designed for comfort and to appeal to their senses and to acknowledge that their comfort and care matters and that they\u2019re worthy of that, I think that the prison system could honestly have a much better impact on you know, redemption and helping people find real purpose in their life after prison. And it could be very healing. I wish that I was president and I could put you in charge of this right now. (Laughter)<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I do think it\u2019s a good idea, because if you\u2019re not acknowledged, if you just become a pawn in a system, something has got to go wrong.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Have you ever had an inkling, do you know what you will be in your next life or what you\u2019d like to be in your next life?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 I haven\u2019t\u2026 I\u2019m so busy in this one! (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well maybe you\u2019d like to take more breaks in the next one! (Laughter)<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yeah, I do think that I would change the schooling system a bit and the prison system in my next life, given the chance. And actually teach\u2026 I think that people aren\u2019t taught at school that there\u2019s all the dirty words, they\u2019re not taught sex properly and then suddenly you can\u2019t have an abortion, they\u2019re all the dirty words that people don\u2019t use, they\u2019re not taught about their system or how necessarily nutrition\u2026 I think we could have a happier, healthier society if all this stuff was taught to you when you\u2019re still little, when you can really take it in. So somehow teaching, I think, would be part of my next life, ideally, some type of teaching. Not me teaching, but helping a system.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Designing a more fruitful and generative and healthy education system, I can see you doing that.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes. Make people laugh more often.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Yes! (Laughter)<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 It\u2019s very important.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, I can honestly say in this conversation that I found joy and you brought joy and so thank you so much Clodagh for sharing your story and your life with me, this has been really, really rich, thank you.<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Thank you. I\u2019ll meet you on the other side of the computer screen one day.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Why do you think you have so many near death experiences?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0 I don\u2019t know, somebody is trying to tell me something.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0 Maybe it\u2019s the spirit world trying to commune with you for a brief moment.<\/p><p>Clodagh: I don\u2019t know, I\u2019ve actually left my body and looked at myself.<\/p><p>Amy: Have you?<\/p><p>Clodagh: Yes, and actually it\u2019s very informative, that you realize that\u2026 it\u2019s very immediate, you should do everything that\u2019s good now, don\u2019t think about doing it next week.<\/p><p>Amy: When you left your body and looked at yourself, what was your consciousness like? Did you feel really cognizant of\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh: Yeah, it was lovely. (Laughs)<\/p><p>Amy: Really?<\/p><p>Clodagh: It was very, very nice, I was in a nice place.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And upon recovery, were you able to maintain the wisdom that you gleaned in those moments?<\/p><p>Clodagh:\u00a0 Yeah, it\u2019s absolutely\u2026 it\u2019s the same wisdom every time, that life is very frail.<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0 How many of those out of body experiences have you had?<\/p><p>Clodagh: Five.<\/p><p>Amy: Five? Clodagh!<\/p><p>Clodagh: But they were great and I came back.<\/p><p>Amy: Yeah, clearly you did and you came back with a lot of gusto. I\u2019m just thinking you really are living this human life with one foot in the spirit world.<\/p><p>Clodagh: As the Irish say, one foot in the grave and one on a banana skin! (Laughter) Have you heard that expression?<\/p><p>Amy: I have, yes (Laughter) I do think it\u2019s interesting that you\u2019ve sort of moved into these different spaces of consciousness so frequently and through accidents. I wonder, if you were going to decide that there was some greater purpose to you having these near death experiences, what would you\u2026<\/p><p>Clodagh: That\u2019s just what I said, that life is very brief and one should make the absolute best of it and give everything you have to make other people\u2019s lives better. It\u2019s easy. (Laughter)<\/p><p>Amy:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Well, you make it sound easy, you certainly do. I\u2019m going to try to take that wisdom and absorb it to the depth of my core without having to have a life threatening accident. You are a magical force and I feel blessed to have shared this time with you, thank you so much.<\/p><p>Clodagh: Thank you. Thank you.<\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Interior designer, Clodagh, grew up in the Irish countryside running barefoot through the woods, riding horses, and rebelling. A near death experience lit a fire in her to pursue fashion and she opened her first shop at age 17. After a career pivot and 50+ years of designing spaces that make people feel good, she\u2019s [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":5725,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"internal_flag":[76,85],"surround_season":[],"surround_episode":[90],"surround_show":[73],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v22.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Clodagh on the Twist &amp; Turns of Her Extraordinary Life &amp; Career - Clever - SURROUND<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/surroundpodcasts.com\/episodes\/ep-189-clodagh-on-the-twist-turns-of-her-extraordinary-life-career\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Clodagh on the Twist &amp; Turns of Her Extraordinary Life &amp; Career - Clever - SURROUND\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Interior designer, Clodagh, grew up in the Irish countryside running barefoot through the woods, riding horses, and rebelling. A near death experience lit a fire in her to pursue fashion and she opened her first shop at age 17. 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