What is the nature of collaboration? (Live at NeoCon 2025)

This transcript was made in part by an automated service, in some cases it may contain errors. 

Faraz: Welcome to Sense Space. We're recording live at NeoCon. So excited. I'm Faraz Shah. And I'm

Ella: Ella Hazzard.

Faraz: Wonderful. And so who we have with us, you guys want to introduce yourselves?

Elizabeth: Yeah. I'm Elizabeth Fle, a principal at CannonDesign. And I'm

Carolyn Ames Noble. I have my own consultancy and collaborate with Turf Design.

Carolyn: Mm-hmm.

Faraz: Awesome. So we've known each other now for many, many years. Um, why don't we just start by catching up. So we did. Our last season of the podcast. Mm-hmm. We launched that in November of last year. Yep. So some time has passed. Some time has has passed. Um, Ella, maybe why don't you kick us off, like tell us what you've been up to for the last few months.

Ella: Sure. I'd be more than happy to share with you my non [00:01:00]architectural adult gap year fund, which has involved some neon art that I've been commissioned to make and I've been. So I guess it's kind of architectural. It gets installed in places. Um, and maybe the most exciting thing that has absolutely nothing to do with architecture is that I'm working on getting my CDL to drive, um, 18 wheelers.

Always commercial. Just driver's

Faraz: license. Yeah, because

Ella: I've always wanted to. Yeah.

Faraz: So

Ella: all of this may come back around someday. Um, but yeah, I've been having fun doing absolutely nothing relative to architecture whatsoever.

Faraz: That's awesome.

Ella: Thanks.

Faraz: Carolyn, what about you? What have you been up to?

Carolyn: Um, let me think.

It was around December of this past year, I, I got a phone call from some friends. They were driving around in Chicago and said, Hey, what are you doing next week? Would you like to come to Chicago and work on a new product collection? And thus, we've launched wood textures this week here at Nhan. Wait,

Faraz: who are those friends?

Carolyn: Um, one of them is you. Oh,

Faraz: okay.

Carolyn: And the other is Rob Che. Ah, and, [00:02:00] uh, we did it, we launched wood textures this week at NeoCon. They look beautiful. It's, thank you. Yeah. So we are extremely proud. It's, uh, an amazing collection from our team. Um, it's certainly been a labor of love and just a little bit of time invested in the last six sort seven months or so.

Faraz: And Elizabeth, what about you? I think there's something that's. Opening here at this building. I dunno. Just sitting around not doing much. Okay, cool. We're moving on then. Okay.

Elizabeth: Nothing as cool as, uh, getting a special license. We'll see to drive 18 wheelers, but among other projects we've been down to the wire to open a pretty fun space for turf.

Uh, an award-winning now space, including lots. Of those textures all throughout it. And it's really funny, I was showing lots of people the awards before I could go public with it and sent through and they're like, oh, look at you in your fancy little manicure hand. And I'm like, they didn't realize that I had to remove all the bandaids and the grease and the sawdust from just hours before of [00:03:00] getting all of that in place.

Well, the blood, sweat and tears, but come and visit that space. Beautiful. Gorgeous.

Faraz: That's incredible. Yeah, I guess I've been on the same, uh, same train. So we've been launching wood textures. We've launched the Turf Design Experience Center, which is now open, and it's been absolutely incredible. This is day one of NeoCon.

We've already given away all our bags. Mm-hmm. Um, sorry guys, there aren't anymore. but it's been, yeah, absolutely incredible labor of love. I guess maybe, Elizabeth, why don't you kick us off? Why don't you tell us about this space? So what did you do and how were you involved in this?

Elizabeth: So it's a really awesome team with lots of people. I'm the lead of that, uh, design effort and it kind of goes back in time, as you know, with the first turf space was only 5,000 square feet. Another labor of love and creativity.

Faraz: Yeah. Back in 2022.

Elizabeth: 2022 was the very first 2023. We won best of, of NeoCon and racked up some fun hardware to bring [00:04:00] home.

Um, but. This was a whole different ball of wax because turf was making much bigger moves than just the showroom. Although of course I love the showroom. They were moving into the mart in a major way, almost 20,000, 18,000, and change square feet for their offices and their prototyping space and their r and d and all sorts of of crazy things.

It's one thing to design a showroom and it's another thing to create something that actually has to live and breathe and be someone's work. Space and showcase the product. So we've been developing that alongside turf and all of our great collaborators for about two years. Um, we had a design coming along and of course I get the phone call of all the new awesome products that need to be celebrated and showcased.

So we also made some fun edit. To make sure that that story was everywhere. And it's funny, the wood textures are my favorite thing. I know between the stone and the wood. 'cause I know they've been in r and d for quite a while, just making them [00:05:00] perfect. And we're already looking at them for pro, for projects, so I think they're gonna make a big splash.

Ella: I love that. Can I ask a question actually about Yeah. Do it. If you working together, is it hard a, to be the client on the client side when you're so used to providing and curious, is it different working with a manufacturer as opposed to, you know. A lay person or a lay client?

Elizabeth: Uh, it's definitely different.

I'll go first in that it's different, but in a good way because we're also sort of friends like, it, it feels, I mean, I'm wearing the branded shoes we feel like, and we have since the beginning, just the, this is the turf call extension. Yeah. I'm repping my Air Force ones. Um, it's it. Sort of like it works inside a design team a little bit differently than a normal client where it's very, we are here as the design team, and then we have a couple moments where we talk to you, the clients, and collaborate, but it's separate here.

It's so much more of a crossover effort. Yeah. Because there is interior design, which is what we're the [00:06:00] experts in, but also it's celebrating turf product, which they're the experts in. Mm-hmm. So I would say it's much more, it's much more of a blended effort than a traditional project. Love

Faraz: that. I think all of us are very talented and have these like.

Areas of expertise and then we all get to bring them all together. And it's a really unique thing where like Carolyn has been involved with this on like our material research and developing our palette across textures and mm-hmm. Elizabeth has been involved in her rest of her team for like developing the expression of that in the space.

And you know, then you have all the product experts at turf and you get to just all kind of hang and collaborate and mesh all of these things together. And it's just, it comes out as. Something totally different. You could feel it when you walk in the space and when you see the product that there's so much care that goes into everything.

It's so different than what you see in other spaces. I think

Ella: Very true

Faraz: in other products. Yeah.

Ella: Any lessons learned or things you've discovered about yourselves as turf during this [00:07:00] process?

Faraz: Uh, it's always gonna cost more and you need more time. Yeah. I don't know how you solve those problems. No.

Elizabeth: I think especially on the, the most splashy, playful spaces like this.

Yeah. We're our own worst enemy in that we're goldfish. I've said this to so many of my designers, it doesn't matter what the timeline is, you'll still work till the very last second. There's always one more flower to snip. There's one more thing to tweak and we will until the second that, I mean, we were tweaking on, on Sunday night, like, like we left at

Faraz: midnight.

Elizabeth: Wow.

Faraz: Uh, which was yesterday, uh, finishing

Elizabeth: and ask yesterday. I was one of the first ones in the space today, like lighting the candles. Got it. Like everything will be the way it be. You mean not lighting the candles?

Carolyn: Of course, yes. I think what's really, really unique to this team is that we celebrate the entire canvas and design experience.

With the products. Mm-hmm. They are all truly one, [00:08:00] they're all components of this one. Greater design.

Faraz: Yeah. It's integrated, right? Yes. Like everything feels like it's part of the other thing.

Carolyn: Yes. It's, it's all part of the other thing. And I just think that's so unique to turf. I mean, you walk into the design experience center, um, I was talking with some designers earlier.

You, you hear the music right away. You take the experience and then suddenly it's quiet and you see the textures and everything is integrated together. I think that's really unique to Turf, and I think it's unique to this team, partly because of relationships that have developed through the years.

They're built on trust. They're built on honesty. Yep. They're built on. Respect for other different opinions that are just gonna make the design even better. Yeah, exactly.

Ella: Well, I think with all of those things, like the, the upshot of that is that you get to take risks together and do things that are different, innovative, and like, you know, you can be afraid to fail together, but on the way toward making something that is ultimately like a really wonderful and immersive experience.

What's your take

Faraz: on the, on the vibe? Like, I think it's awesome. What is it when you get in the space, like how does it feel? It

Ella: is. [00:09:00] It's intense in like the sort of best possible way. Yeah, like, like I think it really does transport you to a different sort of series of spaces and experiences. Can you tell everybody what the name of that, the hidden space that they need to go find is?

Faraz: It's the temple of Textures. So good.

Carolyn: So

Ella: good. I loved it. It feels very spot like and sound like in there. I don't know. It was like a total journey and I think you guys did a good job and I love the fact that you can kind of choose your own adventure exactly through the whole thing. I think it was really creative and really fun.

Faraz: Even on your side like Ella, like what do you feel like was the thing? I was like, oh my God, okay, this really brought it together. Like

Ella: I think I am. I think I like the journey. I like the fact that you can do it a bunch of different ways and I also really appreciate that you guys are. A little expositive about your prototyping process, showing how things get made and like kind of taking us all behind the scenes.

I also really love that it's now your office space, and so you get to kind of see where the magic happens and how this, how this all goes. I have

Faraz: legit had several people ask like, oh, did you just bring the machine in? Like, just for the show? Like, no, is this fake? And I'm like, [00:10:00] no, dude. Like it's, that's like $150,000 machine.

It's not fake.

Ella: Just

Faraz: a robot. Yeah, just a robot. What do you guys, what about you guys?

Elizabeth: You already touched on some of my favorite things, but the through line that I've had since day one, which was also, you were just, when we first started working together, you were launching new colors. Oh, Carolyn. Yeah.

That's you. And so much of what has continued to be my love is. Working off of the nuance of the palette that is available with turf. That's, as anybody who's worked with me knows of all the thing of all the hills, I'll die on the perfection of palette. It means a lot to me down to the, like the most small detail that all those materials.

And I think that's one of the many aspects that turf kind of has a leg up on.

Faraz: So, so your hill to die on is actually like the hill of Carolyn.

Elizabeth: Kind of right her

Carolyn: pillow. I die on this couch. No pressure there at all. I would say for me. So we've [00:11:00] talked a lot about the design and the design process. But the research that really fuels all of this, you can see it, how it all undulates through the space, and I think that's my favorite part.

We talked about sensory design now for many years we've talked about design for newer inclusivity, and when you are in the Turf design center into the office, there are environments that are meant to be very stimulating when you walk in. I mean, it's just mm-hmm. It's the best. Way you're hit with that music, what's, what's

Faraz: stimulating when you walk in?

I, for those of you who have not or, well, when you see this, haven't seen this space. There's a dj right When you walk in, I

Carolyn: could hear it from the, the elevator. You might actually be able to hear it here now. Okay. Maybe I, I think that's the intention to hear it from the elevator, but I love that. And then as you traverse the space, you can find areas of calm, you can find areas of quiet and.

Another interpretation that I just have to share from some of our reps who have toured the space, who will bring design clients, I would say the genius of [00:12:00] having the showroom in this very experimental way, right, on how to celebrate and how to use the products, and then bringing them into the office experience and showing.

How you can elevate your everyday off experience through texture, through acoustics, through color, through design, through integrity. So that's, for me,

Elizabeth: we design very heavily with sort of pop culture influences and Totally, it's, it's a good shorthand. So Severance, hanging out with Blade Runner were, a couple of the moments came.

A little bit of tenant, right? Lots tenant. Yeah.

Faraz: we've talked a lot about like on our podcast, right? How you feel when you come in a space, and I, you know, I'd just be curious to know like what you guys hoped [00:13:00] to get out of this space. Like what did you want people to realize or focus on or feel when they came in?

Like as an employee, as an attendee of a show?

Elizabeth: A couple of different things. Um, one part of what you might, if you go through this space experience is that it is maze like, and that was on purpose. We really wanted there to be this sense of what not of, of mystery. Not knowing what's around the next corner.

Yeah. And also where you. To go and find out. Yep. And so if I even just achieved that for anyone's experience, I feel like a huge check mark goes off. Um, and then tied to that, the whole point, and as it relates to deploying the design in the office, it's that people want different things at different times.

Even somebody during their. Own day. Yeah. May want totally different vibes. And if you have only one option or [00:14:00] style available to you, you have to like leave in order to to find something else. So there is variety while still having a cohesive vision. Those are the two things I think in an really extreme way in the showroom, you get it.

And then in maybe the nuance. Cohesive and everyday way you can have that on the office side.

Ella: I love that. So it's not just choose your own adventure for the person visiting the showroom, that that could be part of your daily experience. Totally. Exactly. Totally. Like we should all be choosing our own adventures.

Always. Always love that. It's cool. I

Faraz: mean, I, I think Carolyn too, like, I'm curious from your perspective, like yeah, we developed that palette in over the course of 2020 to 2022. Mm-hmm. And seeing it come to life, you know, we've done. Our showroom in 2022. 2023. Now we've got this in 25. Like how have you seen like the progression of like the use of that palette change over time and like, I don't know, what are your thoughts?

Carolyn: When we first started on this way, way back, I remember light gray was that number one speci color, [00:15:00] the best seller, O four light gray, the best seller, O four light gray. Yeah. And. Way back, you know, one of our objectives was, well, what if we just had better colors to specify and, um, you know, brought in some play, brought in some color that actually has a little bit of balance.

So it's not so overwhelming when it's. Third dimension and it's big and expansive. So I think we've seen some experimentation on color from designers and architects. Um, we embraced that experimentation, pulling it into stone textures And then certainly with the new collection, with wood textures, really looking at it in an aspirational view on certainly you can have your neutral, um, great field that will work extremely well within the built environment.

But there's also room for experimentation and play with the really bold, more pigmented hues that are available in the collection. So we can't wait to see what's next. For that [00:16:00] collection. That's amazing. Can I ask a question, please? You too. Yeah, please go. Because you got

Ella: this, you have been really, really sort of pushing the envelope in terms of like the, the offering that you guys have.

What is, how does that process start between the two of you guys and what is that like, and how, when do you bring customers in? Like how does this go? Just,

Faraz: it starts with the text. Uh, so we got this crazy idea. Carolyn, what do you think? Uh, I mean, not even joking. That's literally how it started, was. When was that?

Uh,

Carolyn: December 18th

Faraz: and, yeah, December. December 18th. Love

Carolyn: the best time of the year to visit. Lemme hear. Yeah. I mean,

Faraz: and that's how it happens. And like, honestly, like there's so much kind of like a natural collaboration that comes out of this where. Like we're just jamming on this and seeing where the rabbit hole takes us.

Carolyn: We always have something that we're experimenting with. Mm-hmm. Like we had these noise textures. These, oh my God, this is like 2020. Yes. We were really like, what if we did like planetary noise textures? But it's amazing how some of that work. Way back actually starts to like move [00:17:00]forward. And again, this idea of play and experimentation.

And then I think a lot of it is listening. I mean listening to, um, designers and architects and specifiers that are looking for. A wood look mm-hmm. That is a little bit more flexible and, and we're felt we're, we're not wood, so how can we respond to that? And yeah, that's where we decided to take a more aspirational, um, interpretive path.

Faraz: We spent a lot of time developing all this together. Yeah. So that it is less about a, a transaction of like, I need some thing, a service that you offer. Can you please do this? It's more of like. Alright. How do we work together and create something cool? Yeah. Right. It's the color palette, it's the textures, it's a space, right?

It's all of [00:18:00] those things. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a podcast, right? Like, um, and finding ways to do interesting, cool things with cool people. For each of you, what does that mean, I guess like the nature of a, a collaborative team, like what, what elements do you think make that successful? Okay.

Ella: I'll take to, I'll take the simple and dumb one do it, which is to say the courage and the trust that forms the courage to say something really stupid.

To not be laughed at you. We to say a lot of stupid

Faraz: things. We say mostly stupid things. Okay.

Ella: But like out of those stupid things come like the fun and courageous decisions that evolve into like, you know. Adventures and risks, like in, in the healthiest way. So

Elizabeth: yeah, I would say trust is a big part of it, and that's something you have to earn and build over time.

We can't just like have it magically from nowhere. And then once it's there to live, to, to follow up on it, to make sure that it stays strong, as for us, knows plenty. I'm not gonna be able to show him everything. He's gonna have to trust that I care and I'm [00:19:00] gonna make it right.

Faraz: No, nobody has time to do that, right?

Like, no, that would have to be like your only job. Right.

Elizabeth: Truly. And that's, and I think we've all, in the, in the design industry, we work on a really wide variety of project types and client types. And there are plenty of those where they kind of wanna see and double check every last thing. And you're like, I mean, I'll do it for you, but that means I'm not doing anything new for you.

Right. I'm spending all my time proving the thing that I already know to be true. Yeah. So it's a bit of a dance, having that trust and then. Following through.

Carolyn: Yeah. I love that

Elizabeth: one.

Faraz: What about you Caroline?

Carolyn: I'm gonna add on to, um, what Ella and Elizabeth said, and I would just call that mutual respect.

Mm-hmm. So when you are working with a team with very dynamic strengths, learning to respect and appreciate that point of view and realizing, oh my gosh, this is gonna make this better overall because this person is bringing this to the table. Exactly. And then I do have to add just. Joy, fun. Laughter. Lots of fun.

I mean, I cannot tell you how many times, like [00:20:00] we will completely, I mean, wow, sense of space go off on a little bit of a tangent and it's just a lot of play and joy that can, I think, really spark a lot of creativity. Yeah, it's great.

Faraz: I think like the chemistry is really important too. I think. I don't know.

It's, it's interesting. I've worked at a lot of other companies and I think the, the thing about. Certain successful teams is, is chemistry, right? Mm-hmm. If you don't have it, and I don't even know how you quantify that, but if you don't have it, you can tell Yeah. In in the output, the product, the space, whatever.

Right? You can tell when there's a team that works well together when there's one that doesn't like. I guess, how do we, like, as architects, designers, and marketers, how do we, um, like make that better for, for other people? Like what advice can you give to someone you know, who's a, who's gonna be a new client or a new creative partner?

Like how, how do you guys do that?

Elizabeth: I mean, I think it's a, it's an ongoing struggle [00:21:00] or challenge of finding your people too. I mean, there are different projects over the course of my career where I wasn't the right designer and one of my other partners in my company was, or vice versa. And having the humility and the partnership to know, you know what?

I'm not perfect for this. Carolyn's perfect for this, or Tom's perfect for this and aligning that and yeah, and, and rolling with it. And that's, I mean, that's. The number one thing I would say that can be really hard too, to be like, it's, it's like a little bit of

Faraz: self-awareness, right? Very, a lot of

Elizabeth: self-awareness, knowing when you're not the right fit for something.

Mm-hmm.

Faraz: Carolyn, what about you? I'm putting you on the spot.

Carolyn: Uh, I feel sometimes like just life in general has become, you know, so transactional like, and I think it's really important to get to know that. There's human beings on these teams. What makes them tick? What's interesting to them? How are they doing?

I find so many times I just lead a conversation [00:22:00] with, how are you? Mm-hmm.

Faraz: You're abella.

Carolyn: I'm gonna

Ella: give this as a compliment back to you actually. Oh, shit. Because sometimes I think it only takes one person like you and I bonded over the idea that we're like. Architecture plus something else, or we didn't even really start talking about architecture.

We started talking about life. We were abandoned

Faraz: by someone on a Zoom call together on a Zoom call. We were like two orphans dropped off on a Zoom call together.

Ella: Hi. No, it was great. But I think one thing that I really will commend you on is that you, you are never afraid. To operate at the intersection of architecture or design plus something else.

Mm-hmm. And so by bringing music in, bringing you hold space for lots of different things. And so when I said, I think I'm leaving this job, I don't know what I'm gonna do for the next year, do you still want me to do this with you? You're like, hell yeah. Yeah. Like this is still relevant. You're still an architect.

And so I appreciate, sometimes it just takes one person to hold space to make that chemistry. That's really sweet. No, that's how I feel.

Faraz: I dunno what to do next.

Ella: Well, do you wanna talk about, uh, is there, is there something we're asking people to do?

Faraz: You know, I [00:23:00] think this week along well, beyond this week, I think, you know, a, a lot of what I think there's space for in the community is empathy.

It's trust, it's the intersectionality of, of all the things. Yeah. Um, but. I just hope people are more adventurous. Like they, I think there's so much room to push harder and to go further and just not to do something for, to be different for different's sake. Yeah. But to do it with purpose and intention.

Mm-hmm. And, um, I don't know. I hope that there's more of that. I think you're, I think even as we walk through the show, right? Like I, I hope that maybe what turf is doing rubs off a little bit. I think you ups the game a little leading

Ella: by example. Yeah. I think it makes some

Faraz: other people nervous. I'm fine with that,

Ella: but like, let's all go

Faraz: like,

Ella: yeah, the

Faraz: tide rises all boats.

I think that's true.

Ella: Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. So what should people expect in terms of like [00:24:00] experiencing the turf showroom? Like what are you inviting them to do there? Be there.

Faraz: I would say my invitation and expectations would be to come in with no expectations. Okay. Come with an open mind. Mm-hmm. And just be in the moment.

I think that there's a really interesting experience to be had and just let yourself go and, and see where it takes you.

Elizabeth: Love that. I think that's great. And grab a themed drink. Drink. There's always fantastic going on in the amenity space. Yeah. Come to the bar and maybe do a little come, come to the a little boogie.

Yeah. The music's

Ella: been up so far. I'm into it. The music

Faraz: is good now and the music will get even better later.

Ella: Mm-hmm.

Faraz: Um, by the time this airs, I don't even know what time it's gonna go up on Marshall's landing, but I hopefully it's before, uh, three to 5:00 PM on Tuesday, there's gonna be a DJ in the freight elevator.

So come hang out.

Ella: I love it.

Faraz: And if you're listening to the audio version of this, like later this fall, I'm sorry you missed it, but look at the, we'll get next year. Look, look at the video. It's on YouTube.

Ella: I [00:25:00] love

Carolyn: it. Great.

Faraz: What about you, Carolyn? Any invitations?

Carolyn: I don't know that I can top that. There's a DJ in the freight elevator.

I mean, that's just amazing.

Faraz: We did test that last night at like, uh, 10 or 11 o'clock. And so, uh, Patricia, who's on my team, was, uh, running the decks. Had the music going, you could hear it all the way from the basement up to 11. So that's wild. Um, it's gonna be great. So Cool. And if that's any indication of what turf is doing this year, we are inescapable, so come see us.

Elizabeth: Love it. Love it.

Faraz: I dunno, I feel like that's a pretty good way to end.

Elizabeth: Yeah, exactly. Cool.

Faraz: Well, thanks everybody. I really appreciate you all coming on the stage and chatting with me. It's always great to hang out. Always fun.

Ella: Always a good time.

Faraz: Cool.

Carolyn: Thank you so much for this Super Bowl for having us. Well, thank you very much and thank you surround.