The Ripple Effect of Thoughtful Products

The following transcript was made in part by an automated service, in some areas it may contain errors. 

 

Avi: Welcome to Deep Green,

I'm your host, Avi Rahagopal, the editor-in-chief of the Architecture and Interior Design Magazine. Metropolis. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Teknion.

We talk to a lot of folks from product manufacturing here at Deep Green, and there's a reason for that.

The supply chains of materials and products that make our buildings are still full

of opportunities for efficiency and for creative breakthroughs.

So what today's episode might drive home for you, as it did for me, is the holistic impact of improving that product design and manufacturing rather than say, incrementally improving the energy efficiency of buildings. Now, don't get me wrong, we need to be working on both, but improvements in the supply chains of buildings have some unexpected consequences.

Because [00:01:00] products, of course, are made by people when a manufacturing company makes consistent and huge strides towards improving its design, sourcing, and manufacturing, that has multiplier effects in many communities around the world. It does have an impact, of course, on user communities, the people who actually use the spaces where the products go in.

It has an impact on the building industry, of course. Sure. But it also has an impact on the supply chains of those companies themselves. All the people working in many places around the world who might be supplying that company with products, parts, and materials. This kind of networked multiplier effect slowly but surely changes our culture.

That's why I'm so glad to have with me today as my guest, David McDivitt, who's the Vice President of Sustainability at Teknion. Now Teknion, at least since the two thousands, has had a history of transparency and responsible manufacturing. But David is here today to talk about where [00:02:00] the company stands at the moment and want opportunities for greater impact. Lie ahead. I'm so excited to talk to you, David. Thank you so much for being here.

David: Thanks a lot for having me on, Avi. It's great to be here.

Avi: I had a chance to read Teknion's 2025 impact report, and I love the sentence right at the start, doing the right thing, not the now thing. How do you maintain your focus on impact in the midst of all these, you know, fluctuations and demands we always see in our industry, whether now or, you know, 10 years ago.

David: You know, there's, there's always something new happening in the space, be it new chemicals of concern. New or updated certifications. It's really easy to get in the weeds both when you're in the, in the industry or when you're from the outside. But we try and look at this space with an a lens of emphasis on real world concrete actions, and we balance this focus with deep listening, seeking to connect and listen to our customers, our peers, and other voices so we can learn and build on the successes of others and challenge [00:03:00] ourselves to do better and do our part too.

Avi: over the last 50 60 years, furniture design has become dominated by plastics. High carbon emissions. Because of course it reliance on fossil fuels toxicity. Plastics are complex and there's many components and layers to them.

And of course, they're also part of our use and through culture. Now, this is not a problem that's particular to Technion, neither is it a problem that Technion in any way created. Certainly not. But you know, it's kind of, uh, an endemic situation in the industry that you're in. Are you doing anything to, shift or change the way you use plastics in particular as part of your materials mix?

David: we start with transparency. That's, that's the base for, for taking action in this space. We identify what really is in our materials that go into our products and the packaging that protects them. Then we identify what the impacts are of those materials be the health impacts ecosystem or global climate [00:04:00] change impacts, both in theory and in reality.

We know that most plot products that are made of plastic are not really recycled, even if they technically can be in we, we take that into consideration. We then use this data to focus our efforts and minimize those impacts ultimately. We do need to challenge the status quo and make bigger moves, in order to really make an impact on this.

And the results of these actions are integrated into our product certifications, like Declare and BFAE three, which we participate in to show our customers what we're doing and to continually challenge ourselves to improve the teams that develop and optimize these standards. They challenge us and our, and everyone in our industry to get better, and we really appreciate that.

Avi: those kinds of industry wide standards are really important. I also love the approach you outlined in terms of, you know, really taking a deep dive about the, the places where you can make a real impact and then dialing in on those. you've started in some, you know, pretty amazing places. Um, [00:05:00] trying to phase out PVC use for instance, which has been much discussed in our industry.

uh, but even in small details like how you deal with edge banding, can you talk about some of those, you know, measures you've taken along this journey with plastics?

David: Absolutely. to make these impacts, we need to balance forward-looking, design evolution for new products, as well as going back and updating our existing product catalog as well. So where we start first is to replace the really problematic plastics, for example, PVC.

Or Teflon, which includes A-P-P-F-A-S component. PVC and edge banding has been replaced with polypropylene. While Teflon in table glides, for example, has been replaced with PFAS, free polymers, but other plastics have surprising impacts as well. For example, nylon with an embodied carbon factor of nine kilograms of carbon per kilogram of virgin material is a problematic plastic with a climate change impact.

At least twice that of many other plastics. So the next step we take [00:06:00] is to use only as much plastic as is needed and where it's necessary. Design those plastic components with intention to be long lasting and beautiful. And when we do use plastics, we work with our suppliers to replace virgin plastics with as high of a recycled content version as is possible in the case of nylon.

A 50% recycled content nylon is typically readily available and can be directly used in many cases. The one exception to this is in lighter color components, which can be discolored by the darker materials in the remelted plastic, but that doesn't stop us from using higher recycled content in our highest selling colors, which of course are blacks and grays, we also look to use lower and embodied carbon plastics, for example, polypropylene or polyethylene that could directly replace the nylon with carbon contents that are about half of that, or nylon or even less.

We also look to our supplier partners to provide innovative recycled formulations that can have even greater impacts, [00:07:00] be that plastics derived from ocean waste materials or chemically recycled nylon. These can further reduce the impacts in the near term.

Avi: I think this kind of, just comprehensive but, but pragmatic and reasoned approach is, uh, what I know Technion for, right? From your, you know, efforts around materials transparency in the two thousands and 2000 tens. Um, I think to today, uh, you know, you've done so much to kind of, uh, first of all open up your supply chains, really examine each of those materials, and then as you said, look for these opportunities.

In some cases, you know, whether it's. Phasing out some entirely, in some cases, replacing them in some cases, finding more recycled content when it's available. Um, and then, uh, keeping an eye on that carbon number, which is fantastic. I'd like to come back to carbon emissions in a second, but of course, another, um.

You know, issue with, with plastics is, um, waste and manufacturing. Um, you know, we just, we use a lot of material. Um, you know, typically we [00:08:00] have overages. Uh, manufacturing is not obviously an exact science. Um, because, you know, supply and demand fluctuate. Uh, how do you, how do you address waste, um, AZ Teknion?

What are some of the things you're doing there?

David: Sure. Sure. Um. Well, we look at both the small opportunities and the big impact areas, both in terms of increasing efficiency, making less waste, as well as circularity, finding a use for our waste instead of, instead of just throwing it out or, or disposing of it. For example, looking at circularity within our own facilities.

We use fabric off cuts and end of rural textiles to create protective wraps for use during manufacturing. For example, protecting aluminum extrusions during intersite transportation of these materials, these wraps, you know, reduce our waste output, reduce the amount of single use plastic wrap we use and last far longer than traditional wrap.

And importantly, it's very visible. Our people in our, in our factories and our facilities. [00:09:00] See brightly colored contract furniture, textiles being used for this purpose, and it makes them think. It makes them come up with their own ideas in this area, we also work really closely with our suppliers as well as local industries to find uses for our waste and their waste.

For example, our acoustic PET board supplier takes back our off cuts to reprocess into acoustic batting insulation. We also work with our suppliers to reduce their impacts as well. So it's not just one direction. For example, we use high pressure laminate as a structural component in one of our table screens, but it's not a visible component because it's covered in fabric.

So we don't really need any specific color or pattern for it. So we work with our supplier to have them send us obsoleted patterns that would otherwise have been sent to landfill by them. And by partnering with them on this, we reduce their waste stream as well as strengthen our collaborative relationship for future opportunities.

These are just a couple of [00:10:00] examples that, that are, are relevant in this area.

Avi: I love all of them because of course, you know, they have the charm of being really commonsensical when you explain them, but of course, you know, they're not standard practice and I think it's lovely. I also love the idea of your factory workers seeing components wrapped up in, in scrap fabrics going around the factory.

That image is pretty great. One of the things I noticed in your impact report is that. For Teknion as a company, your Scope three emissions, which is basically, you know, the emissions that are made not at your premises or by your staff, or you know, by your operations, but rather by the operations and staff and energy use at your suppliers, right?

That's your Scope three emissions. And those are actually 85% of Technion's carbon footprint. Um, you know, this is the problem all companies have when we start to really do. [00:11:00] Dive deep into carbon emissions is scope one and two emissions are comparatively speaking more within our control. But once we look at our suppliers emissions, right, it gets so much more complicated.

How are you working with your suppliers on this as you're working with them on waste? How are you also working with them on carbon emissions?

David: Absolutely. I mean, these things go together and you know, Teknion, I like to say is it's part of a value chain from raw material suppliers to our dealers, installers, customers, specifiers, and our impact is amplified immeasurably by sharing and working together with all members of this ecosystem. We have a huge breadth of suppliers from large, sophisticated suppliers through to local, smaller component suppliers, and as a company that's had a greenhouse gas reduction program for over 20 years.

We have the ability and really the responsibility to pass on the experiences and learnings that we've had to our suppliers. So we complete [00:12:00] workshops with our suppliers to share tools and resources to help them accelerate or begin their own greenhouse gas reduction programs. This includes providing them with our tracking and monitoring templates and our process learnings, and through these workshops, we form connections and identify opportunities for collaboration beyond just.

Carbon initiatives. Our procurement team then works with our suppliers on a day-to-day basis, taking on initiatives like consolidating deliveries, creating reusable shipping containers, uh, production waste returns, uh, like some of the examples I mentioned in the previous, uh, segment there through to biofuel, integration and co-development of lower carbon products.

Through these efforts, we've been able to save hundreds of tons of carbon directly and indirectly by emphasizing an openly collaborative rather than heroic model. We're hoping to accelerate the change to our culture, making sustainability and collective action part of the mindset of everyone, [00:13:00] both in Teknion as well as at our supply chain partners.

Avi: Let's now talk about the other side of your manufacturing process. Um, we talked about your suppliers, uh, your own organization, and you're doing so many great things in both those places. How does this then interface with the kinds of tools and, um, kind of frameworks that your customers.

Whether there'll be those be your specifiers or kind of, you know, your sales influencers or you know, your actual, um, buyers and, and customers. how is what you're doing fitting in with, you know, some of the tools that the industry is using at the moment? You know, materials, databases, um, product standards.

We have some firms that have come out with their own recently, um, EPDs or other forms of, you know, you mentioned declare labels earlier and, and, uh, SMAs level E three certification. Um, tell me about how you utilize those tools and how teknion's sort of efforts with your organization, your suppliers, interfaces with your [00:14:00] customers in that industry effort.

David: you know, we recognize that specifiers and our customers need to understand our story in order to be able to, to implement their own. Actions to make their own impacts, they need to be able to understand where our performance is, to be able to make informed decisions. Um, so we have programs and certifications in place to help make this possible.

And this covers all the various different aspects of, uh, sustainability, be it indoor air quality or built environments or end of life. Disposition of, uh, of product and whatnot. Um, and we place a real emphasis on simplicity and consistency. All of our products are at bma, E three, level three, and SCS Indoor Advantage Gold for VOC emissions.

It makes it more straightforward and easier to understand for specifiers rather than having all sorts of caveats. We also have 18 EPDs covering over 70% of our product lines, and this is something that we're, we're [00:15:00] continuing to cultivate and to grow as it's, it's a, it's a real ask and a real need in the market.

And you know, when it comes to a and d firms with their own standards. It's a, it's another, it's another variant. But we really appreciate the work that they've put in to, to emphasize both with us as well as with the specifiers, where they want to focus your baseline efforts as well. Well as your, you know, market differentiators with, or sort of the higher level that you should be seeking to achieve, that helps us to organize our, our programs and to, to chart a path forward to where we want to grow them.

Avi: all these efforts kind of ladder up. They kind of all work together, whether we're talking about, the broader approach, transparency. Thinking about the plastics problem as, as a central one, thinking about, you know, waste about carbon emissions.

And of course, you know, you think a lot about materials toxicity and, and things like that too, as you, it's kind of threaded through. You talked about PFAS earlier, you just talked about, you know, um, SES [00:16:00] global, um, standards for under quality and things like that. How can, what kind of support do you think the industry in turn can give Teknion?

Um, you know, how can you know that network that you're a part of, uh, specifiers, dealers, your customers? How can they work with you to amplify what you do to make a bigger impact through what they do? You know, talk to us about what you hope to see in the industry going forward.

David: Technion and I myself love hearing from our customers and our specifiers. I love getting the feedback and the collaboration because. Like I said, it helps us guide our actions to what's meaningful to them, and, and that's, that's what we're here for. And teknion's agile enough to be able to respond with customized programs where we don't already have something in place to help our customers meet their goals.

It almost inevitably results in a win-win situation where we learn something new, we develop a new program in [00:17:00] support of them, and, and that's. You know, that's critical for us, and you know, we make these connections on both day-to-day projects as well as mega projects. So it can be something very simple like hearing from our customers formally via RFP information requests and specifications, that that helps us to quantify the demand and urgency for a particular situation, which helps us again.

Prioritize and work to respond to that issue as well. As, you know, hearing from our partners in the a and d community through workshops and collaborative conversations, that helps us to understand their specific needs and hone in our solutions to their context and to understand how some of our programs may help them meet their goals.

For example, our divert sustainable decommissioning program can help reduce their landfill impacts, as well as creating positive community impacts via charitable donations. If that's a, a priority for our customers, which it often is this, these things work in [00:18:00] synergy and they can, they can really, um, hit two, hit two targets in.

Once you know this philosophy of collaboration and openness and a focus on long-term real world impacts with our, for our customers and with our suppliers and our community, this helps drive us and inspire us, and without our customers. Uh, collaboratively working with us. We wouldn't have, we wouldn't have the ability to understand what's really important in their world.

Um, and that's, that's absolutely crucial for us.

Avi: We need more communication than ever before. Um, I've definitely been at events where, you know, we're talking about circularity and decommissioning and, um. Some and Technion representatives are in the room and somebody says, you know, I wish, I wish manufacturers find a solution for this.

And the Technion person has to say, well, we've had our program for a while now. Maybe you should use it. Um, you know, I think, uh, you know, it, it, I think it, what I mean by that is I think. [00:19:00] It cuts both ways. Right? While I think the industry relies on manufacturers like Teknion, um, to streamline your efforts to make things easier, to provide all the tools we need, we also have a responsibility to, um. You know, um, familiarize ourselves with your efforts to kind of support those efforts to make sure that we're amplifying what you do, um, through your work. Uh, you know, furniture in particular, but interiors, materials in general have a huge impact.

And we've gone over this many times on this podcast. Um, and I think it's really wonderful today to hear from you, David, about just the. You know, multi-layered, multi-scale approach you're taking to change real systems change, um, in the furniture industry. And, and it's been so wonderful to hear you on this.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate your time.

David: Thank you, Avi. Thanks for your leadership in elevating our message and the message of sustainability in general.

Avi: Deep Green is [00:20:00] produced by the Surround Podcast Network. This episode was produced in partnership with Technion. It was produced and edited by Rob Schulte, with support from Rachel Santo and Lauren Voker. Here at Deep Green, we talk to the biggest experts on sustainable architecture and design. And a new episode comes your way every few weeks.

So catch our next episode wherever you get your podcasts.