How to Get Students in the Classroom Through Design

This transcript was made, in part, by an automated service. In some areas there may be errors. 

AJ: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to today's session of Once Upon a Project. I'm AJ Paron, executive Vice President and Design futurist for Sandow Design Group, bringing you some of your favorite brands you know and love, like Interior Design magazine, metropolis Magazine, design, milk, think lab, and more.

AJ: today we are live at NeoCon, believe it or not, and this is day two.

Brian: Mm-hmm.

AJ: And boy, do my feet hurt.

Brian: Amen. Amen.

AJ: But we have some of our good friends from KI that are here with me today. Let's start with Brian. Can you introduce

Brian: Yeah, thanks aj. Uh, Brian Baller, vice President of Education for k. I been with KI for about eight years.

Prior to that was a client of K'S running the purchasing and facilities for school district out of New York City.

AJ: I didn't know that you were a client at some point. That's

Brian: liked it so [00:01:00] much. I came to this side of the table,

AJ: dark side. No, it's the good side really. It's the good side. And then we also have our good friend Jason, do you wanna introduce yourself?

Jason: Yeah, thanks aj. I'm Jason Lazars. KI is A and D market lead and so I, spend a lot of time with designers. I have a background in design and, when I first started working, I was, um, lucky enough to get a job working with Michael Graves at the time. Who

AJ: were with Michael Graves.

Jason: And, uh, at the time he had his line at product. If you could remember back then, he had a full aisle at Target where he sold products.

AJ: Oh, I had the toaster.

Brian: Exactly,

Jason: And so, uh, I took a job as an assistant there and I sort of absorbed it as a sponge and it sent me into a path doing, marketing, business development and PR for different architecture firms. So I sort of fell into it and never looked back.

AJ: Jason, I just learned something really interesting about

Jason: you today.

Thank

AJ: for sharing

Jason: Yeah, of course. Exciting.

AJ: So design is really important to K and what. I love about many of the products that you have in your [00:02:00] brand. There's, there's a, there's a higher purpose really.

And so, you know, when we talk about the education of our children, it is our future. It is so important. And, you know, we look at the history of design for schools. It was.

Jason: we

AJ: go back a long time ago, it was pretty much the same design for prisons. So not really thoughtful, not really, conducive for great learning and inspiration.

And if you were a different kind of learner, hmm, guess what? You're not gonna get it in that type of environment. So, Brian, talk to us a little bit first about the philosophy of K, why you focus on educational environments and what is your ethos of, of. What you do for that marketplace?

Brian: Yeah. Well, uh, education's been at the heart of Kay since we were founded in the forties, right?

Our first chairs and, and tables were going to higher education K through 12 and, and churches, uh, that's where we started, uh, and where we [00:03:00] continue to focus our time and attention. So when we think about the market and we think about what these teachers and students are thriving and trying to do, it is different class to class.

A school in the same school district has a different culture, a different purpose, a different populations that it's serving. So rather than being prescriptive, our goal at KI is to empower those teachers, those principals, those leaders who are actually cultivating the curiosity and the learning for their students to be specific to who they are as a specific, uh, individual school system, school unit itself.

So how do we go about doing that? Is through our partnerships across our industry, right? Making sure our partners have the tools that they need to support getting the right solution to, and for that end user who is the student and their teacher.

AJ: That's awesome. And we're gonna talk about a very specific [00:04:00] program that you have, which is our project that we're discussing today and once upon a project.

But before we get there, Jason, you talk to architects and designers all day long.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

AJ: And especially in the education space. What are some of the, the biggest barriers that they tell you they have on existing environments in classrooms and teaching? Like, what are, what are these, these educators dealing with, um, on trying to create these spaces that are nurturing and, um, are all about lifelong learning?

Jason: Well, I mean, and a lot of it has to do with the age of the buildings themselves, right? So, I mean, most public school buildings across the country are around 50 years old at this point. And so that leads to, um, you know, budget problems, spatial problems. I mean, like you said, schools historically have been designed to look more like prisons.

So it, it really depends on what your starting point is. If you have a new build. That's fantastic, but a lot of the time you're [00:05:00] working with an existing framework that's really quite dated, so you have to think about a lot of the ways that you can really improve a space through minimal means to have a very large impact.

AJ: Yeah. And we all know

Jason: budgets are a

AJ: huge issue and in funding and, and

Jason: and

AJ: what's different about education is you sometimes have one shot to do it right, because you're not gonna get another chunk of money for maybe 30 years.

Jason: Correct.

AJ: So that's like, that's a lot of pressure. Yeah,

Jason: Yeah.

AJ: it's a lot of pressure on administrators, on teachers, and we all know we don't pay our teachers enough,

Jason: Right, exactly.

AJ: And, and so. guys have seen that there has been a huge need for better spaces, better support for teachers, better support for students. So talk a little bit about the program that you guys have initiated.

You're in your third year, so, so Brian, launch us into this program. What's it all about?

Jason: Yeah,

Brian: me start [00:06:00] with the saying from my colleague Emily McGinnis, who is our K 12 market manager. So Emily came to us with 22 years of experience as a teacher and a principal. So I had the facilities administrative side. She had the true in the classroom cultivating young minds, and her favorite saying is, if you don't feed the teachers, they'll eat the students.

Right.

AJ: Literally,

Brian: Yeah.

Jason: Yep.

Brian: Depending on the school system. Yes. Possibly. But what we saw is teachers for all that they do are very seldom in the driver's seat of their own space, whether that's their curriculum choice or especially their space, that they're actually occupying for 8, 10, 12 hours a day themselves and with students for seven to eight hours each day at a minimum. You see this when you walk through a lot of school buildings where teachers are getting things off of Facebook marketplace and you might see that sofa that's had some, you know, prior use or those beanbags, et cetera. And while that's great and we want the teachers [00:07:00] to have that, uh, their personality there, how can we do that with solutions that are new, that are, are designed to withstand the 30 years before the next update, potentially withstand the use of school systems themselves.

The products at KI. Designs. So we sought to change that and how can we put them in the driver's seat? We launched our classroom giveaway competition three years ago, and we just wrapped up our third iteration getting ready for fourth next fall. So look out for that. And in this competition, in this, in this giveaway, teachers get to go on our website, on our classroom planner tool and design the classroom of their dreams. Most of them do it with their students, so it becomes a learning opportunity for them all.

AJ: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Brian: So the kids with their teachers will ideate around what they want. They'll play in the tool, and they'll ultimately submit the design of their dreams and why they need it, what it'll do for them, how it'll unlock further [00:08:00] potential and improve their outcomes.

Jason: They

Brian: submit those, those are whittled down to a group of finalists across the country put out for a public vote. And these teachers know how to drive the vote. Let me

AJ: tell you,

Jason: you,

Brian: the winning the ultimate winners, the grand prize winners, there's four of them. They get their solution, their classroom

Jason: fully

Brian: installed, free of charge given to them.

And we have had some wonderful experiences from 2022 to when we started it, to the last installs that just wrapped up a few weeks ago.

Jason: So

AJ: I think let's tell our listeners a little bit more about why this is so important. I mean, you think, oh, if a school district needs new classroom furniture, why, why don't they just go buy it?

Right. And the reality is there's a, a lot of districts that just do not have the money and like. I think about a project that I was working on In New York City, and a designer and I were, were going around and looking at the classrooms and looking at the [00:09:00] space, and we're like, why is the library locked?

Jason: Right?

AJ: And they're like, oh no, we, we don't have a vacuum.

Jason: Mm-hmm.

AJ: So we can't. We, we can't take care of, we don't have a vacuum and a cleaner to take care of the floor in the library. So we just closed the library and we're like, what?

Brian: what? The heart of the school, the hub of the school.

Jason: But

AJ: there is that mentality of, it's not just about.

Jason: putting

AJ: together band-aids on a solution, it's the long-term maintenance. It's making sure that that product is gonna stand to the test of time, and the resources are so slim.

Jason: Sometimes

AJ: just better nut to have them, which is the wrong solution.

Jason: Right, right.

AJ: Which just, it breaks my heart. And so with this giveaway competition, you're, you're allowing some of these most needy [00:10:00] schools to come together with a vision. Of that teacher and the students and pull together something that's better. So tell us a couple stories. I've watched a few of the videos, which are like, aw, they're so sweet.

And I love the little kids and you know, and, and they know how to say all the right things they do. Did you pay them? Shoulda

Brian: had them on

Jason: podcast. Yes. Yeah.

AJ: should have had some kids on that's maybe next year. Um, but like, tell us some of the stories that you guys have heard. You've heard from the, the competition of like, the change that has happened for these individuals?

Jason: what really stood out to me about the all the winners really is that just how different the spaces are, right? And they're, that's driven by their communities, their needs, all these different things. But, uh, what really strikes me is, is the outcomes, right?

They are all improving the outcomes for these students. And so for me, what I take away from this is that there's no. Right or wrong way in classroom design. [00:11:00] Right. There's, there's very nuanced ways to handle things, and it's really inspiring. I think, you know, teachers can learn a lot from designers, but designers can learn a lot from teachers and how they've expressed themselves.

I think it's a really powerful thing. Yeah.

Brian: And I'll add, you know, one, one story from this past year, uh, Kellyville High School outta Kellyville, Oklahoma, very small rural community.

Jason: They

Brian: together their teacher, uh, Ms. Childers. Incredibly passionate about what she's doing. Trust me, we have the text to prove it and, uh, and love everything about it. the students that she serves are the students, uh, in her words that

Jason: don't,

Brian: uh, don't perform as best in the traditional

AJ: classroom. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brian: right?

So she included these students in the design deeply, and she has incredibly. Varied space where there is the stout maker table look and vibe. There is the zeer lounge, relax and just, you know, socialize or take a [00:12:00] respite and everything in between, including your independent learning. But they purposely built a a lot of variety into this one classroom because she knows her two student population is that diverse in their learning styles, in their needs.

Set that. A space that can activate it all for them is what they needed. And that's what you see emulative in their design and the students as they speak about what they've done. And Jason, to your point on, we can teach design the or the industry can help the teachers. Um, but they can help us just as much.

Right? That was a big, a big drive behind why we started this, this giveaway is so that we can learn as an industry. And to your point, there's plenty of schools, aj, that are out there that are underserved and, and unfortunately need to lock something up because they can't maintain it. There's also a groundswell of bonds being approved across this country to build or modernize schools, which is fantastic. and I'm [00:13:00] guilty of

Jason: this,

Brian: teachers don't often have the voice or the level of voice in that process as the true practitioners and experts of that space,

Jason: which

Brian: why we want to empower them. And when I say I'm guilty of this, one of my last projects when I left my old school system. I get a call, I'm friends with the principal of the high school, and he says, Hey, we've got all this furniture that's really stuck in its place in our, in our general classrooms.

I wanna try something that's a bit more mobile. I said, I gotcha. No questions asked. I call my friends at KI, Hey, we get a fully mobile, uh, solution. I don't ask questions. I don't ask for input. I just say, let's get that and move forward. First day of school starts and my buddy calls me within 20 minutes of the first day of school.

What did you do to me? I said, what he said? I said I needed some flexibility. I didn't need everything on all casters, kids rolling everywhere. We weren't prepared for this. I didn't stop and talk to the [00:14:00] him and his teachers to fully understand what it is they were looking for, what they were needing. I just said yes as an administrator and bought something and thought it would work.

AJ: But that happens all the time.

Brian: All the time. All the time.

AJ: does. And you know, Jason, when you talk to a and d firms, I think we hear this all the time from designers and architects that many times they don't get to interview the users, not the teachers, but the students.

And especially if they're special ed students and you know, there's a lot of privacy issues and things like that. But you know, I was working on a school project and it was for. Um, a level four facility, which is, you know, basically these kids can't be in normal classrooms. They have to be in a specialized school because they have such intense needs.

And it was really interesting 'cause the architectural firm that had hired me to be their consultant was like, no, we're not gonna,

Jason: we

AJ: interview these [00:15:00] kids because half of them don't speak. And I looked at the teachers and they're like. Well, we can figure out a way. And so we put together a little program on an iPad and we showed them pictures of furniture and we made them pick, they had no verbal skills, zero, but they could pick something on I and on an iPad, and 80% of them picked the same things.

And that's what we specified. And I tell you, when those kids walked into the space, their eyes. Lit up. Like they recognized what they had picked and they had ownership. Right. They couldn't tell us anything, but you could see it in their face. Yep. And that's so important. So this program is so great that it's involving the children, right?

Yep. And it's bringing them as a part of the design solution, which

Jason: Many

AJ: times A and d never gets to do.

Jason: No. I mean, in a really well thought out plan, they would, right. They would have the access to children and be able to really explore that and, and good designers know that, but [00:16:00] you're right. I mean there is con sometimes you are just kept from the students.

And so having students have real sort of advocacy for what they want in this is, is truly special. Um, think about any other type of. Pro, like a workplace project, you know, you would survey your employees, they would get to have input for what they want. That is so rare in education. And so the fact that we're doing this in this contest, I think is, is really powerful.

Have you guys

AJ: come up with any new ideas from things that the kids have said or, or have expressed over the last three years

Brian: We've seen continued, uh, attraction to some of our solutions and, and when we dig, why? It's because they get to get their movement out in a way that isn't disruptive to class.

AJ: And when you mean movement, explain a little bit more what that

Brian: It can be them bouncing up and down. It can be them flexing, it can be them wanting to go from one. Type of posture in place to a different posture in place, possibly from sitting to [00:17:00] standing or just being able to bounce, uh, their bodies fully, their legs, et cetera.

So that ability to move and adjust for their own needs or as their partnering with their peers or teachers has informed. Not just new products for ki but also how we're positioning and, and showcasing our product to additional schools and our a and d partners so that they have those talking points.

Not just to talk about KI product, but to talk about how it is solving solutions, solving, uh, issues for students that are both latent and explicit.

AJ: And they will tell you if they like something or don't. Oh, that is

Brian: they do not

Jason: use words. Yeah.

AJ: They were like, this is, I don't like this. Or they fight over. Exactly. Everybody wants this one thing. Right. Um, you know, I have to say that right now we're sitting in K chairs. What are we sitting in?

Brian: We are sitting in our limelight chairs.

AJ: Okay. And there's a very nice give to it. I can, I know you can't see me 'cause you're listening right now. But there's a nice rock to it [00:18:00] and it is a hard shell chair. There's no cushion on this and I am exhausted. Did from NeoCon and I feel great in this chair. I feel alert. I feel like I, I could talk to Jason and Brian all night and the production team would kill me, but it's, there is something about being in the right posture, having some movement.

To, to help your body adjust from being in very intense environments. So this is, this is a great example that we're sitting. Thank you.

Brian: thank you. And, and you know, when we say posture, we're not talking about the prim proper posture that, you know, we maybe we're taught as, as children ourselves.

Jason: The

Brian: posture that we need at that time is different human to human right. So the solutions that allow you to, to sit the way you need to as you need to and give you that choice without being disruptive to the podcast studio you might be in, or the classroom you might be in, are important.

Jason: So

AJ: of the things that I love about the competition is that when you look at the [00:19:00] solutions that have been put together, the award winners, and you guys have great videos and people should go and and watch these videos.

'cause I think number one, as a designer, you learn a lot from them because you're hearing it directly from the children and the teachers, which. Again, there's never enough funding to go back and do post occupancy studies, and that's these, that's what these kind of are. They're post occupancy studies that show what's working, why they like it, how it's affecting them in.

So when you watch those videos, the thing that is really shining out to me is the furniture and the settings that have been created are for all children of all abilities. Now you don't have a big sign on your showroom saying you're neuro inclusive furniture, but that is basically many of the things that you're doing.

In your furniture line because you're thinking about [00:20:00] all the abilities that people have. And I can tell you in 1998, I got called into a school district because they were taking two kids with autism in a first grade class and putting them. They wanted to integrate them, which is very important on many different levels.

They want to integrate these two kids with autism into a regular first grade classroom. So they called me in. I met with the teachers, they sat and I looked and I watched the behaviors and I learned about these kids. And when the teachers told the parents

Jason: of

AJ: of the kids in the classroom that they were going to accommodate and bring these two other individuals in, the parents were angry.

Mm.

Brian: Hmm.

AJ: And the parents were like, I don't want my child who is normal to be with other special ed kids and, and sit in environments that are not built for them, but are built for special ed. And I was so [00:21:00] angry. I was like, let me talk to these parents. And she was like, absolutely not. 'cause I was really hot and heated and probably would've said something I would've regret.

And when I say normal, I use quotations. But some people say the proper term is neurotypical. so. I thought it was really interesting when I went in, we made accommodations in the room and there wasn't, I mean, 1998 there wasn't a lot of out there.

Brian: Right. And more impressive because in 1998, I think you were fifth grade yourself.

AJ: Right. Thank you, Brian. Yes, that is true. I was actually eighth grade, but you know,

Jason: close now.

AJ: so we made the changes to the environment. We put the kids in the classroom and I would go in there and I would watch. And I would sit in the back corner, not talk to anyone, and just looking for behaviors.

'cause I know you guys do a lot of that as well. You, you watch behaviors of students and, and people and how they work with your, your product

Jason: Mm-hmm.

AJ: So I'm doing that and the [00:22:00] neurotypical kids would come up to me and I'm like, Hey lady, are you the one that told him to put in the swing? I'm like, maybe. Why?

Well, we all love it. And when I swing, I can go sit down at my desk and do math because I've moved. I'm like, who is paying you to tell me these things? This is amazing. So I wrote all the comments on about how they all love the weighted blankets and this certain pieces of furniture that made them feel cozy and safe, and they could read a book or just be able to move throughout the space.

And I wrote all those comments down. Put it in a beautiful report sent to the teacher and I said, you better send this to every single parent

Jason: that is

AJ: in this classroom because they need to understand this didn't just help those two kids with special needs. This helped every kid in this classroom, and that's what you're really trying to do.

It [00:23:00] you're trying to help every brain in that classroom learn. So talk to us a little bit about.

Jason: You know,

AJ: some of the products and how your products are helping to do that.

Brian: happily. So, uh, one of our most recent products is our new Cogni chair, which we're incredibly excited and proud of.

Cogni was designed with that in mind and just overall student engagement. Right. Student engagement is at an all time low in the country. Uh,

AJ: and what does that mean, Brian? When you say engagement, what does that actually mean?

Brian: means as simple as students showing up absenteeism as at or equal at higher rates or equal, depending on where you are in the country to where it was.

During COVID and right after the COVID

Jason: COVID pandemic.

Brian: students not showing up to school. In some areas of this country, 70% of a student population is not showing up for 10% or [00:24:00] more of the school year. So that's part of it. Engagement in general, simply showing up to campus. Then you talk about engagement in the actual classroom.

Are you listening to what is being said? Are you participating? Are you actually doing the turn and talk when teacher instructs, AJ and Jason now turn and discuss what I was just discussing, right? Are they, or are they not participating in that, um, to, are they doing homework? Are they, are they doing their reading logs if they're in the younger

Jason: grades?

Brian: Uh, everything across that spectrum is what we count as engagement. And per Gallup and Pew studies engagement is at record Lowe's and continues to be. So when we play our part, right, we make furniture. We're not gonna solve the engagement solution, we know that, but we do play a part, so let us play our part.

So we sought out to provide a solution that maybe can help address that some. And our Cogni chair brings that to life by having ability to. [00:25:00] We talked about choice and movement for students, that they can bounce, they can get the flex, they can find that posture in that place without being disruptive.

Whether it's sitting backwards in an inclusive cutout, whether it's the, uh, flex in the frame itself or the sensory shroud itself, the tactile on, on the bottom of the chair, there's a tactile surface because data shows that the type of sensory input and that ability to move as you need to

Jason: releases more dopamine

Brian: in the brain.

Hmm, which is the, the trigger that encourages focus and motivation and higher energy levels. So in our small way, we are trying to increase that focus and that motivation for students so that when they're in this space, they feel engaged. And then the overall design being a beautiful space, not the prison vibe that we discussed at the top of the call might help students want to be at school if they are.

Gonna enter a beautifully well designed space that might encourage them to show up more [00:26:00] frequently than they they currently are.

AJ: So when you talk about the sensory tools that are on the bottom of the chair, is that sort of like what kids use for fidget tools where they're just trying to get some sensory sinking into their fingers and hands?

Brian: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, think of a fidget spinner. That's the, the, the chair itself doesn't have fidget spinners on it. But why are those popular? Well, for a variety of reasons. One being we all have these phones in our pockets, especially students, right? Young, young minds that haven't ever not had these.

AJ: Mm-hmm.

Brian: And then they enter the one place in their life that they're, for the most part. Told to put their phone away or potentially have to lock their phone away. Yes. So they're constantly getting the, this dopamine hit by using their phone and, and, and this attention seeking by touching or, or using their phone.

And then they're told to, Hey, pay attention to me. Put that thing away. How can we encourage or give them something tactile, literally tactile that can maybe satiate that need [00:27:00] slightly Again, not a complete solution, having that sensory surface. Gives them, whether they're quote unquote neurotypical or neurodiverse, we all have that need.

Right? We've probably, the three of us have maybe reached for our phone while being in this, uh, podcast itself, right? We have those desires as humans. So let's design to satiate or support, uh, those needs

Jason: so

AJ: they can pay attention. Correct. Really. Jason, what about you? What are some of the things that you're very proud of that KI is doing for this effort?

Jason: as Brian said, cogni is a really standout example for, for what we provide. And I think with, with a lot of the products we have, we want that sort of movement and flexibility.

I think being able to bring in different types of seating into a space, whether it's soft seating, um, really, you know. Satisfying the needs of all types of students, um, is, is really important for us.

Brian: I would add to that, the playfulness, right? I think you know that, that students. We [00:28:00] all want to play. It's in our nature to play. So

Jason: products

Brian: that can be played with, whether it's blocks and blips that are mobile and, and you know, actually part of the curriculum in some spaces or furniture that you can climb on and, and, and, and, and group up just for that social group or for an actual instruction model.

Something you can climb on, you can play. Let's not limit who kids are, right? Whether it's, oh, that, that population you were discussing earlier, that they can't give us input because of their neuro divergencies.

Jason: divergencies.

Brian: No, they can, you found a way you didn't limit them. Right. Let's not limit them.

We know that they need to, in a controlled way, to some degree, let them play, but with solutions that will. Be able to withstand that play and and encourage their continued growth across social and intellectual needs.

Jason: especially in an increasingly digitized world, right? So having that sort of play, that sort of tactile, each of that human to human interaction, I think is just really so important.

AJ: Well, attention is at a [00:29:00] scarcity. It really is, and I think what's so critical about our school systems right now, just like you said, if absenteeism is high in a population and they're there one day out of four, right? It every minute counts. Every minute counts. And so if the more attention that you have for them, the more that they're learning. I remember when I had chickenpox and I missed like two weeks of second grade. I felt like I never caught up. I can't imagine what some of these students are feeling like, especially if they're in.

All their challenging environments, they miss a day, they miss a session, they're like lost next time they come back. So

Jason: having that

AJ: engagement and making sure that you're getting through to them, it, it is so critical and so important.

Brian: It is. And that's why we were talking about post occupancy earlier, right? So we, uh, for the students or the teachers that win the classroom giveaway [00:30:00] competition, they do a pre-survey in their former environment before they know that they're winners.

So they haven't gotten completely, uh, over the top, uh, joyful yet. They're taking a, a survey of

Jason: You

AJ: give them the good news yet.

Right? Okay.

Brian: So they take that survey and then after they've, uh, been awarded and had their product, their new classroom installed, and they have some time to get used to it. Weeks, right?

'cause we don't want that just honeymoon reaction,

Jason: Right.

Brian: We take another survey, the same survey, and we're testing 'em across engagement levels from community to wellbeing, uh, to the environment itself in place. And what we're finding is, is incredibly impactful. Uh, outcomes for our students. So we're seeing, uh, degrees up.

32% increases in how students are feeling overall. They're able to work in groups, collaborate with their peers.

AJ: That's very important.

Brian: Yeah. Uh, other metrics across how they're usually leveraging [00:31:00] technology or able to access the tools that they need and they increase there. how much they simply love being in the space. Up 200%.

Jason: Oh my goodness. 200%. 200%

Brian: increase of love to be in that space. So these spaces that the students had ownership, they had a voice in their teacher, had a voice in designing, is showing that when it comes to real life. 200% growth in them loving that space, that's gonna bring them back, that's gonna make them more fired up to come back.

I don't want chickenpox, I wanna make sure I'm there. Yes. Right. So if that can play a part in bringing that absenteeism right down, we're playing our part in supporting the future of our country, as you said at the top, and the outcomes of

Jason: our students.

AJ: like, this is what I, I've noticed in my kids is that if they have a great teacher and they're like, I can't wait to go to school.

Like they're all, I'm like, no, you gotta go to the dentist today. And they're like, no, I wanna go to school. I wanna see Mrs. Kenny, you know, if they're that excited about [00:32:00] the space. Their teacher could be a little dull, and that's okay. Right. Right. It doesn't have to be about the teacher. It's about, oh, I wanna go to that space.

That space, it makes me feel good. It gives me ownership. I have agency Right. To be able to learn and, and grow and, and do better. And that's what all kids want.

Brian: It is. And,

AJ: have

Jason: Exactly.

Brian: And we want the teachers to feel fully empowered too. Right. One of our winners from this, uh, from this last semester was a co-teaching, co-teaching classroom for those of your listeners that, uh, aren't aware, right.

So that's one, uh, general ed teacher and one special ed teacher sharing

Jason: a space

Brian: with a mixed population of neuro. Neuro divergencies in the space in the same classroom. And one of their comments, uh, my fav, one of my favorite comments was they said, I feel like we're gonna be able to run our classroom so smoothly.

Not only are the kids going to benefit, but our relationship as co-teachers is also going to benefit because we have what we need to be [00:33:00] successful. So two teachers sharing a room, sharing the same student population when they're given what they need. The, the outcomes are, you know, infinite in what they

AJ: synergistic.

Right?

Brian: Exactly.

AJ: And I have to say, I've, I've gone into

Jason: two,

AJ: 300 classrooms over my 30 plus years in the industry. Doing design, and I'm very good at picking out the kids that are on IEPs, individualized education plans that have special needs. What I love about that winner, that classroom is you cannot pick them

Brian: Right.

AJ: They all look the

Brian: same. Mm-hmm.

AJ: And that tells you that space is really working well because it's not like super apparent

Jason: Who

AJ: needs special attention or special tools. 'cause everyone's using them and everyone's doing well. And [00:34:00] that's a huge success to how that classroom has been designed and engaged and how you've supported them.

So that's something really to be proud of.

Brian: Thank you. Thank you. We are,

Jason: So

AJ: Tell us, you know, from this program, the Classroom Giveaway Pro project, you've been doing this for three years, I'm assuming there's gonna be fourth.

Brian: There is, yeah. We're gearing up now to launch the fourth, uh, coming this fall.

AJ: So what are both of you most proud of from this program?

Like what's the thing that you are really, that has really impacted you as a person from participating in this program?

Jason: Uh, for me it's really just about impact, right? Like seeing the real world human impact that we have and we're bringing it at scale every year. So, uh, the stories that we've, you know, seen and the stories that are about to be told in this coming year.

So I think, you know, uh, in the design world, it can be very [00:35:00] abstract, 2D, 3D. I think really seeing those human stories and seeing how much it's improved the lives of these students has been the biggest takeaway for me.

AJ: and it really makes it come to life too, because you see the videos and you see the testimonials and it's always

Jason: so funny 'cause when

AJ: we're in the design process, like when we're doing the CAD drawings, the Revit drawings, we think everyone's going to be on their best behavior all the time.

Right. Like all these little people are walking around with smiles in their faces, with their notebook underneath their, their arm, and, and that is not what happens in

Brian: the classroom. Nope.

AJ: There is sometimes chaos. So it's really fun to see that come through.

Jason: Yeah. And seeing how they use the space. Right. I mean it in a productive way. Exactly. Exactly. In ways that you maybe hadn't imagined, but are very, very cool.

AJ: How about you, Brian?

Brian: Uh, I echo, uh, Jason's sentiment completely and I'll add, uh, internally at [00:36:00] ki this is our most fun project. You know, this is a big project that we take on every year.

It's not, you know, done overnight by any means, but it takes the entire village. So from our product team that's designing it to our design partners and our a and d design lead, and Jason to. The field sales team going out there and trying to get their teachers, Hey, apply, apply. I want you to be a winner.

I want you to be a winner. And now where we are right now, we just got all of the, you know, all of the photos and the videos and, and our communications team being able to activate that and put it out there. Everyone loves doing it. You're cutting videos of students so happy and thrilled saying thank you, KI, and you know, seeing them activate spaces that they only dreamt of and now are real, it's just fun for us internally as well, and, and brings that joy.

So as employee owners, you know, K is an esop, so we're all employee, uh, part owners of the company, and it, it's a joyful thing for us to experience as, as peers and as co-owners of

AJ: company.

Everyone's participating and it, it does take a village to make these things [00:37:00] happen from the initial concepts and designs to the field people, to the installers, to, you know, it's a, it's a family to, to put it all together.

Jason: So

AJ: let's talk a little bit for a second about the future. Okay, you guys ready for

Brian: Let's do it.

AJ: Okay. 'cause I am a design futurist, so I do like to

Brian: I do see, I see your crystal ball here.

Jason: So

AJ: what do you think is the next thing in education that we should be paying attention to?

Jason: Like,

AJ: there things, and don't give us any trade secrets, but is there there things that you're like, I mean, obviously you've movement's been important.

Mm-hmm.

Jason: Attention

AJ: has been important. Sensory,

Brian: Yep.

Jason: Sensory.

AJ: What's, what's the next thing, do you

Jason: think?

Brian: I think continuing to lean into those, uh, the, you know, there's five senses.

Are we hitting all

AJ: there's actually more than

Jason: five.

Brian: There are. That's true. Yeah.

AJ: That's another podcast for another day. But

Jason: Yes.

Brian: Uh, so we haven't even, you know, scratched the surface on some of those. So I [00:38:00] think that's, uh, that's, uh, a little peek behind the curtain of where I'm thinking things can or, or will go.

Um, I'll leave it at that, I think for now.

AJ: How about you, Jason?

Jason: No, I would, I would echo that. I think we really are only scratching the surface of especially the things we're making, right. And, uh, you know, the completely inclusive classroom I think is what we're striving for.

AJ: And KI has been an amazing partner to us on this whole season of Once Upon a Project, and we've covered some topics of neuroaesthetics and I think that's a lot of the components that you're doing with your, your furniture. And the products that you're creating from like this amazing pod that we're in right now to, you know, individual pieces of furniture, groupings of furniture, we know very little about Neuroaesthetics.

Jason: Neuroaesthetics.

AJ: But it is, I think it's the next frontier, and you guys are on that cutting edge [00:39:00] of understanding the sensory, the brain, um, the human behavior, and how it all comes together to make a positive environment. So that's what I think it's gonna

Brian: I, I hear you. And I think it's getting that, uh, to the right people, right to um, the design community. Absolutely. Uh, to the dealers and the install base. Absolutely. But also to those superintendents and their offices and principals. Right. Uh, my, my analogy I like to use as a doctor, right?

Maybe has one course they take on nutrition.

AJ: Mm-hmm.

Brian: But how much does that impact our health overall? Principals, school leaders, superintendents might take a course on budget management and there's a, you know, a one week element of that course that's on facilities management. It's not getting into design and how space can or could support your spa, your students, and your population and your vision and your goals.

And that's part of our industry's responsibility. Absolutely. [00:40:00] But how can we, as the industry experts help get that knowledge to them and work more inclusively so that the, we're getting closer to the teachers having a voice, the students having a voice, the principals knowing what they, how they can activate those voices.

Most impactfully,

AJ: and just think if you took your model. Of this classroom giveaway. But administrators did something very similar for their classrooms, for their teachers. Imagine if they took your model. Mm-hmm. And that's how they dowelled out their, their budget. And they said, okay, you got X amount.

Figure out what you wanna do. Include your students. I mean, I do know some school districts, very few, but some that do something like that. But you have a great model.

Jason: for decision

AJ: makers to use to, to be able to have a much better system of design. So thank you ki for being here. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Brian.

I love this project so much, this giveaway [00:41:00] project, and I can't wait to watch the videos of next year. And, you know, if you needed a, a judge or somebody else to come in and, and, and do something, I'm all for it. I'm here to help.

Jason: we just may take you up on that.

AJ: Okay. I love it. So thank you so much to K for being not only great guests today and telling us about their project, but for our seasoned sponsor and.

Brian: And

AJ: If you've missed any of our episodes, we've talked about many of these topics. We talked about color in schools, we've talked about neuroaesthetics. We talked about sensory integration in a lot of our other episodes this season, so please check them out. I think by the time you listen to the whole season, you're gonna have a whole new perspective on the world and design, and so thank you to K for being such a great sponsor and for doing all the good you are doing in the world.

Thank you.

Brian: you, aj.

Jason: aj.

AJ: That's it for today's episode of Once Upon A Project. A [00:42:00] huge thank you to our stellar production team, Rob Schulte and Rachel Santor for helping bring these stories to life.

If you loved this episode, be sure to subscribe and check out more inspiring [email protected]. Until next time, Keep designing with purpose, keep asking bold questions. and we'll see you on the next episode of Once Upon A Project.