How Have You Been?

This transcription was made in part by an automated service, in some cases it may contain errors. 

Faraz: [00:00:00] Welcome to a Sense of Space, the podcast about the built environment and all the stuff we interact with.

I'm Faraz Shah.

Ella: And I'm Ella Hazard.

Faraz: How have you been doing, Ella? What have you been up to since we've last spoken?

Ella: Let's see. We saw each other last at NeoCon, um, in June, but we haven't sat down to record anything like this since when, like the fall of last year maybe. I,

Faraz: yeah,

Ella: so I had just left my most recent role and I decided to take a whole ass year off and do what I'm calling the Stray Dog Year, which is like, Ooh, it, it looks shiny over here.

I'm gonna go this way. Smells good over here. I'm gonna go that way. And just kind of, I don't know, take a year to be curious about things that weren't necessarily related to like professional life or architecture. And it's been kind of wild.

I don't know. I feel like you've had a big year too.

Faraz: Yeah, it's been interesting, you know, when we did speak fast. It was at Necon, we [00:01:00] did the sense of space, live recording. we were coming off of very little or no sleep. We,

Ella: I know you guys have been running, huh?

Faraz: we'd, we'd just finished the, the showroom. So, we had a little bit of a break, which was nice to be able to slow down and reflect. But the last day of Necon, everybody kind of closed the door to the showroom uh, we went into a conference room and we started planning and whiteboarding about what we're gonna do next year.

Ella: What, are you kidding me?

with how many brain cells? Like how does that happen?

Faraz: It was a lot more caffeine than brain cells, I think. But

Ella: Got it.

Faraz: it's basically the loop, right? So as soon as you finish, you start. Uh, but it's been really cool. we've been really deliberate about what we're trying to do. So as things have slowed down a little bit over this summer, you know, we've been focusing more on product.

We've been focusing on strategy and really kicking off into high gear, because it's always, you know, it's a Super Bowl for us. So on the like, professional [00:02:00] side. That's what I've been up to.

Ella: You guys slayed this year. The showroom is amazing. But it also wasn't just like the new display space you guys had also were launching like a whole new workspace too that you'd been building, right? Like this was a, a lot rolled into one this year.

Faraz: 18,667 square feet. who's counting?

Ella: That's awesome. kudos to you on that. First and foremost, it was a beautiful space. It was so nice to kind of see some of the behind the scenes there and you guys always, knocked it outta the park

Faraz: you've gone maybe a little different direction and arguably I think maybe it's a little more interesting than what I've been working on lately.

Ella: interesting. Is, is a good word So I decided that for each quarter of the year, that I was gonna have some sort of class or thing that I was learning.

Um, so I started in the fall with a ceramics class, enjoyed the people, but hated the process. I was so bad at it. And I made a bunch of stuff that I did not really care for, um, but had fun making messes. So that was good. at the beginning of this year, I jumped back into like [00:03:00] direct architecture and designed a house in Vermont that I decided not to build, but spent about three months doing a full set of architectural drawings by myself that I hadn't done in a while to renovate a house.

Faraz: Dust the skills off a little bit.

Ella: this was embarrassing. I shouldn't even admit this,

but

I didn't even, I didn't I didn't, even do it in Revit. I like drew out 2D AutoCAD light style, like it was easier and faster to just dumb though the modeling of, it felt like it was gonna be more work to try to reteach myself how to do that.

And the other stuff was kind of baked in deeper. So I did it the dumb way.

Faraz: that that might be because we're getting old.

Ella: shh, don't tell anybody. No. Super old here. And I think also like at, at the time that I'd like opted outta architecture and kind of into startup stuff is basically when all that 3D stuff took hold. So, um, yep. Dating myself a bit.

Faraz: All that. 3D stuff. Yep.

Ella: the present, the future, it's already the past

Faraz: Yeah.

Ella: and I'm behind that.

So, then what'd I do? in the summer I took truck driving [00:04:00] lessons

Faraz: Yeah. And we're not talking like pickup truck. We're talking.

Ella: full 18 wheeler the long and short of it is I did get my commercial driver's license come hell or high water. That was probably one of the most painful experiences of my life. Rob, our producers doing the, the air horn,

it's actually a button on the side of the, steering wheel.

Faraz: oh, was it really?

Ella: I know it's so boring. New trucks, it's it's easier to hit than the regular horn by accident. Actually, at

least in the truck I was

But it was one of the most fun things I think I've ever done. And also the most challenging, like there were tears at the end of most days of like the practical, like the driving around, like you're learning in the streets of Los Angeles in traffic, how to drive this gigantic thing.

There wasn't enough parking lot time beforehand,

Faraz: That sounds terrifying.

Ella: yeah, it was really scary actually. Um, but I got the hang of it eventually. And I managed to pass my test on the first try, which is pretty rare. Uh, and I would say I, I barely passed it. I squeaked [00:05:00] by,

uh, not sure, not sure what I'm gonna do with it, but it's a cool skill to have. I applied to grad school for a psych degree that I just started trying to figure out what it is to be a student

again. And I also went to Burning Man a couple weeks ago, which consumed a bunch of time in terms of prep.

I camped all by myself, which is kind of a hard and weird way to go about doing that,

Faraz: Yeah, so just a

couple things.

Ella: just a few things and I finally started consulting part-time again.

Uh, so I'm finally not, maybe not begrudgingly, I'm excited to be back to work, but kind of taking it easy for the, the beginning. But

that's me.

Faraz: I have to ask, why all of those things?

Ella: I guess I was curious about what an experience, well, first and foremost, let me say, had the privilege to be able to. Take that time. And I'd never taken, I've been working since I was like 12 years old, paying taxes since I was 14. I'd just never taken a gap year or time to figure out what I actually wanted to do.

And so I gave myself a year to do whatever I chose [00:06:00] to do without thinking about how that would kind of contribute towards my future. Or like, not having to have a, a plan for it per se, just 'cause I wanted to. Um, which was new for me. I've never done that before. Um, and so I don't know why those things.

It's just 'cause I, 'cause I wanted to, 'cause I felt like it because I was curious about it and I realized that, you know, sometimes it was like an extended vacation, but kind of a working vacation. Like I've never been busier, but I was busy spending money, not making it,

Faraz: Yeah,

Ella: you know? So,

wildly indulgent.

Faraz: Well, it's interesting to me, like, you know, I think that there's a lot of different ways that people kind of recharge their creative energy, and I wonder if, was that. Kind of a, a series of avenues for you to kind of like go down the different rabbit holes and see what would kind of fill your creative tank.

Ella: I think so. And I think it's also just an indulgence about things. Well, I've [00:07:00] spent my entire career kind of working toward architecture built environment, and I think that a lot of the things, like I can draw parallels in creative process, but also learning new things.

Faraz: Let's draw those parallels.

Ella: well, learning something new that's hard, that's like incredibly physical and mentally challenging, like driving a truck.

But I'm also kind of curious about like how people might live in the future. Like what if we are nomadic, what are the things that are on the road all the time? What's that like? Like when you're kind of out there and it's solitary, is there infrastructure for people? Do we need to put Zumba classes at truck stops because truckers are unhealthy?

Like what are, like what are the, I don't know. I'm just having weird thoughts And I think for me, I can do primary and secondary research, but my preference is to go live somebody else's life for a period of time. Like if somebody wanted to pay me to do this, just putting that into the universe.

Like part of what I would love to do is like I'd love to design in like custom interiors of trucks. That'd be so rad.

Like

Faraz: is a

huge thing.

Ella: Yeah, they're so nice. The nice ones. Oh my God.

Faraz: you were mentioning like Burning Man, and you did [00:08:00] that differently this year than what you did last year, right?

Ella: so I was with a big camp last time that showed up with lots of infrastructure.

We paid camp dues that covered showers and food and like a kitchen and all kinds

of like uhhuh amenities that, you know, one might find at home. Uh, it was much less of a camping experience, even though it did get very muddy and it was difficult or challenging in a different way. This year I decided to go.

Only with things that I could pack on top of my into or on top of my Mazda three hatchback. So I went from the biggest of most luxury experiences to the tiniest most, and most people don't really go solo on their own. They'll at least open camp with other people. And I chose not to do that. I wanted to know if I could do it by myself, and I did and made lots of friends, and the car was packed.

so full that I had to like rearrange things so that I could smoosh it down so that I could even see the mirror on the side of the [00:09:00] car. Just was so much stuff. So the lesson I learned was sometimes less is more I was packing so much stuff to try to not have to ask anybody else for help and that maybe the point of community is to like do a little bit of a trust fall pack the absolute essentials and that likely people will be willing to help you or share with you.

And that if I brought less, it might have actually increased the amount of interaction

that I had. Um, but I was afraid of doing that but it was a good lesson learned and I dunno, all my gear worked out so I felt pretty grateful for that.

that's been my year. I mean, thanks for asking about that. I feel like, I don't know, I have questions for you about, like, guys have had a year in turf, but also like family stuff. Like you had a kid go to school last year, I think during last, last season.

How's that going?

Faraz: It's going pretty well. last night, my son was texting me like 11 o'clock. He's like, you up? I'm like, oh God. Like what's going on?

Ella: Oh no.

Faraz: but it turns out he was actually texting me about like, wanting some, [00:10:00] uh, design feedback.

And it's just an interesting kind of like change of pace

Ella: He asked you for the feedback. Did he receive it? Well,

Faraz: I think so. I mean, I kind of bombarded him with text messages and so we'll see.

Ella: that's awesome though, that you guys can talk about that stuff together. I remember meeting him at NeoCon and he shared some of his work with me then. Like he, like, he seems like a really interesting guy. I mean, how would he not be? Who's

Faraz: Right.

Ella: kid? But, that's cool. And then your daughter is a few years behind him, right?

Still in high

Faraz: Yeah, so she's a, like a sophomore or just starting her sophomore year in high school. it's been an interesting balance of time professionally and personally between what is like, kind of a crazy season over the summer that typically overlaps with like, the downtime for like the kids and the family, right?

So NeoCon

Ella: Yeah.

Faraz: always happens at the beginning of June,

Ella: Yeah,

Faraz: which is, um, right when the [00:11:00] kids wanna go and do something fun. And so finding that balance is really challenging. this year was a little bit interesting where I was able to get my son a part-time job at Turf. So he actually came in as a temp and he basically helped the product development team doing all kinds of random stuff.

Ella: I remember seeing him back there by like the Zoom machine or whatever.

Faraz: yeah. Yep, yep. So he was working in the, the build space and um, just kind of helping the PD team, but like trying to, uh, drop him off at the train station so he could come downtown when I drive out to the other office. And, uh, a little bit of bring your kid to Workday, but also like trying to create space for him to do his own thing and not just be like, well, dad's around.

Um,

Ella: fair. cool

Faraz: just not something that anybody would've told me was [00:12:00] a thing that I had to even think about my career when I was younger. Um, which is, I guess the perk and or like crazy part of having kids young.

Ella: yeah, that's true.

Faraz: I have not had a gap year yet.

Ella: Yeah. I feel like you're, you're due one though,

Faraz: I'm

due one. Yeah. We'll give, we'll give it a few years and then I'll sell everything and move to Europe or something. I don't know.

Ella: Wow. Okay. Yeah. Do

that.

Faraz: I don't

know.

I mean, I haven't had a gap year, but for me, you've used the, the opportunity to like try these new things and learn new things over the last few months.

it's like a creative recharge. And for me, like, I like the chaos and the, I don't know how you would call it. Like there's a certain level of intensity and a certain level of energy that's required to pull off something like a necon or product launch at Turf. that gives me the creative [00:13:00] energy for the next year. And it's like, instead of it being this draining thing, it ends up being a recharging thing.

Ella: I know it's a, I know it's a mountain of work, but you guys do have a really good team and also every NeoCon you guys win tons of awards and things like that. So I could understand how that would keep like the good juju rolling.

I feel like in my career, a lot of the things, either the stage of the project that I'm working on something with, like I very rarely get to see things all the way to, to fruition. So I don't get that like endorphin or like dopamine hit at the end. It's just like, it's a lot of starting, which is something I've signed myself up for.

But I think I didn't do a very good job of caring for myself or resting between. 'cause you don't, it doesn't come full circle. At least not in my involvement with things always. And that's okay. I just don't think I was really aware of it before. But listening to you say that makes me think about how I might do this differently in the future.

Faraz: Yeah. And I think for some people too, like there are people who just like the building part and like the, the kind of closing and like [00:14:00] the finishing is, you know, maybe not something they're interested in, but, I like seeing the full range of this really nebulous idea and turning it into something very concrete or felt,

pun intended.

Ella: No, it was fun at NeoCon this year. I really loved the, the showroom and like the kind of labyrinth that you guys created. I also managed to catch the freight elevator with the DJ in it. That was super fun. Like you guys did some fun stuff this year

Faraz: I think when we were doing a sound test, like

the staff

operating the freight elevators.

there were a couple guys who were like, no, no, no, I'm gonna be the one doing this one. Like the

supervisor was like nah guys, like this is mine. You know, and

Ella: like I, I called it.

Faraz: kind of. Yeah. And like for somebody to feel that sense of, excitement and energy, like how could you not get recharged from that?

Ella: do you feel more pressure every year to like, top yourself?

Faraz: Oh yes.

Ella: Is that why you sit down immediately? Like right after NeoCon's over, you're like, all right, that was great. Now it,

Faraz: I don't know. I mean, part of it's just [00:15:00] like you sit down right afterwards because you've got all the feelings and it's fresh. but the pressure is a very, very real thing because, it's expensive

Ella: Mm-hmm.

Faraz: financially and physically, we've set an expectation, So this isn't a, uh, YouTube rabbit hole, but this is like a, something that showed up my, my Instagram reels a while ago. But I was, watching this reel and it was an interview with a fashion designer, and I can't remember who it was, I'll paraphrase what they said was that.

For the fashion industry, it's a thing that happens every year. You do a runway show, you launch a new collection, but you have to move out of this mindset of every year is gonna be the next best thing. Some years it's gonna be fine. Some years it's gonna be amazing, and other years it's gonna be a dud.

But the idea was that you had this discipline and you had this understanding that this is the thing that you do every year.

And for me, I've been trying to think about [00:16:00] how do you translate that thinking into what we do. And there's always a focus on like new products and new finishes, right? That's just part of, you know, having a business.

But the other thing is like thinking about this in terms of like commentary or, a position, an opinion on what is happening in the world or what is happening in the industry right now. So. When we do our next NeoCon in 2026, it may not be a focus about just product. It may be an aesthetic commentary.

And I think like that's the shift that's helped relieve some of that pressure is that we're not just trying to make the next splashiest product the next thing that's gonna get the most attention because it's new. But instead it's shifting that mindset to something that feels topical, that feels relevant, that feels appropriate to the audience.

Ella: can I dig into that like a little bit further? So like, okay, so next year you won't be [00:17:00] launching a whole new showroom, like you, there's a little breathing room

Faraz: Oh, no, we will. you know, doing a bunch of crazy shit,

so,

Ella: Nevermind. Just kidding. Got it. Good. Well I'm gonna have to come back again. I love that. Um. Well then I guess the other question would be is like, do you tune at all to like the kind of like the metrics of like where you see your projects, like, oh, we have a bunch of like this type of project on the horizon.

Is there a way to tune to that? Like what are the things that you utilize to sort of steer what happens? Or is it just like what you guys feel like would be fun?

Faraz: I mean, in a strategic sense, right, like what is the, the function or what is the role of that space?

And it's not to be a product catalog. It is to be a space that inspires someone, that shows someone what's possible working with like the [00:18:00] tools that we have in our arsenal, right? So like all these products, all these materials, we feel like if it starts a conversation, that's a success, that's a win.

Projects will come outta that, right? If we can show a designer or an architect how to use one of these tools in our toolbox in a way that they never knew how, or they, they didn't expect that, that's what you could do. Like that's a success.

Ella: That's really cool. I really love that approach, and I think that's a helpful reframe.

Faraz: It's different.

Ella: well it's so awesome to hear about all of what you're doing for us. It's like, I've had such a weird year. You guys had a crazy busy year. I think that like we're both showing up at season two of this podcast as well.

You're a more seasoned veteran and I don't know where I am, but maybe it's a good time for us to talk about what, like, what all that might mean for season two of sense of space and like what we plan to do here.

Faraz: my hope and aspirations for this is that. We're able to take these experiences and [00:19:00] take this kind of refreshed framing of the world and what we've been up to professionally and channel that into everything in the built environment. I know we've got some interesting topics that, that we've been brainstorming over the last few months, and I'm pretty excited to talk about them.

But I do think that it's more about the dialogue and like, let's see. See where the rabbit hole goes.

Ella: I think that's fair. I think that that was some of the good feedback that we received. And by the way, I would leave that as an open invitation to anybody who is listening is that we do love your feedback. If there are things you want us to talk about or we should never talk about ever again, like we're open to that or like what you liked about this versus what you didn't.

And I think that both of us, well, I'll speak candidly and you can correct me if I'm

Faraz: Yeah, we can

Ella: feeling

Faraz: That's fine.

Ella: that's that what, that's what Rob is for. No, but feeling like a little, like we did a lot of research and put a lot of effort into kind of crafting. knowledge based experience for [00:20:00] season one.

And I was really glad that we did that. We had the time to do that. We put the energy and effort in. We had the help of other team members to do that, but I also think that it made us maybe a little bit stiff or maybe not you, me, it made me a little stiff and I was like, I had our rubric that I not, that wanted to stick to.

And really what, what I think is helpful about this conversation and the good feedback that we received from our lovely team is that, like you and I chit chatting about topics is actually maybe more interesting than trying to like shove books and podcasts and information down an audience's throat.

Faraz: one could probably draw a parallel back to your Burning Man experience where, you know, in season one, a Burning Man for Ella, you know, you came with all this infrastructure and you know, you had all these, these safety nets, and now I think season two of Burning Man for Ella, it's been about like.

Bringing what you need. And so we're gonna do that. We're gonna apply that to the podcast. We're gonna bring what we need and nothing more.

Ella: [00:21:00] Yes, open space and freedom and flexibility for the conversation to go where it will, because that's actually where, like how this all started. It was just you and I bullshitting about stuff and getting along.

So

Faraz: It'll expand our sense of space,

Ella: ha Yep.

Faraz: we've been talking a lot about our summers and what we've been up to. Let's take a look forward.

Ella: given all of my like, trucking time on the road and visiting weird places in the middle of nowhere and Burning Man and things like that, I'm super excited about experimental architecture, temporary urbanisms, how our cities could be, um, or how they might have been and some of the experiments along the way that people have sort of done to, to test that.

Um, yeah. What about you? What are things that are like hot on your mind to talk about this year?

Faraz: I [00:22:00] wanna talk about something that's pretty relevant and personal. Um, I wanna channel my, my inner Joe Pechi here, and I wanna talk about the youths, the, the youths.

Ella: The Utes.

Faraz: I wanna understand what this next generation of designers are up to.

Like how are they thinking? What's different about their approach? What's the same, um, for me, that's something that I'm, I'm really, really curious about.

Ella: I think that makes a ton of sense. And I actually see in some ways that there's like a lot of relationship between the future of things and who will design and make that. So that's that. This will be fun.

Faraz: I like that. We didn't even plan that. That's

Ella: No, we, well that see it's working.

Faraz: Perfect. The dialogue is happening.

Ella: Yay. Uh,

Faraz: Well, okay, now we have to figure out, we've, we've kind of meandered all around what we've been up to, what we're looking forward to. What the hell are we gonna call this episode?

Ella: Well, we titled all of them questions last year, which I do [00:23:00] like.

Faraz: it's not a question, but I had one I liked.

Ella: Okay.

Faraz: did last summer.

Ella: Yeah, but it's not been a summer for me. It's been a whole year of

Faraz: Fine.

What have you been up to?

Ella: Where have you been?

How have you been?

Faraz: Where slash How have you been?

Ella: Rob can choose.

Faraz: Yeah.

Ella: What's up?

Faraz: Was

Ella: Nope.

Faraz: We've given you nothing but gold, Rob.

Ella: constantly

Faraz: All right, well let's close this out then. I mean, I think, you know, this has been really fun to get back

Ella: back in the saddle.

Faraz: I just wanna say, you know, thanks to everyone for listening to Sense Space.

As you know, this episode was produced by Rob Schulte with a help from our associate producer, Patricia Gonzalez.

Ella: Sense of Space is a Turf podcast and is brought to you by the Surround Network. To hear more podcasts like this, please visit surround podcasts Do

Faraz: Make sure to leave us a great review wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And don't forget, share this in your spicy group chat.

Ella: We'll see you next time on sense of [00:24:00] Space.