Furnishing a Better Future

This transcription was made by an automated service. In some areas it may contain errors. 

Avi: Welcome to Deep Green. I'm your host, Avi Raj Gopal, Editor-in-Chief of Architecture and Interior Design Magazine, metropolis, and today's episode is brought to you in partnership with All Steel, and we're coming to you live from NeoCon in Chicago. When we think of all the ways that we could be designing better buildings.

Especially commercial buildings like office towers or education spaces. There's one lever that I think people still don't pay enough attention to furniture. Some numbers, about 8 million tons of office furniture ends up in US landfills every year. And for a standard office, renovation, furniture and furnishings represent about half [00:01:00] the space's carbon footprint. So yes, furniture can prevent some harm in the world. It can. You know, help us make better buildings. But here's the exciting piece. Furniture can also be a tool for doing a whole lot of good. We touch and interact with furniture every day. So well-designed furniture can make a big difference to our health and wellbeing. It also takes skill and craft to produce furniture so it can uplift and empower communities, involve them in finding solutions for people and planet. Using healthy, beautiful materials in furniture and furnishings can have a multiplier effect for our buildings, which is why I'm so thrilled to have two guests on the podcast today who've been helping organizations make real impact through their furniture and architectural product selections Here with me today are Lisa Bruney McDermott, who's the Director of Corporate Social Responsibility at h and i. And Madison Gentry, who is the architectural product [00:02:00] sales enablement manager at Alte, Lisa and Madison, thank you so much for joining me today.

Madison: Thank you for having us.

Lisa: Yes, thanks for having us.

Avi: So, Lisa, give us an overview of the sustainability journey at HNI and at Allsteel in particular,

Lisa: Yeah. I'm really proud about the way that we focus sustainability. So we talk about it in three pillars, respecting people, reducing impacts, and redefining tomorrow, respecting people.

We're really thinking about our members, the employees working in a manufacturing facilities, the communities where we operate. And our supply chain partners. So where we control within our doors and outside of our doors, reducing impacts is how do we, you know, think about our operations, make them more efficient.

Lean has always been a part of our culture, but really taking that up a notch. You know, we have 29 manufacturing facilities throughout the United States, so we have a lot of square footage, a lot of operational impact that we have opportunity for our goals there around reducing carbon, reducing waste, getting to zero waste to landfill at all.

Manufacturing [00:03:00] facilities, reducing scope one, two, and three emissions, and also purchasing a hundred percent renewable energy. So really trying to hit all of the spectrums there. Not only reducing carbon, but how do we reduce energy use? And then finally redefining tomorrow is about how do we think about creating more sustainable product?

So we've been focusing on packaging material and then also the chemical ingredients that goes in our products and lifecycle analysis. So trying to hit all of those factors and move everything forward in all aspects of our operations and in all of our departments. So from product design to supply chain to on the manufacturing floor, how do we integrate all those considerations?

And it's been a great journey. You know, the tagline I use to sum it up is better choices today for a Better Tomorrow. I think it aligns with sustainability, uh, the perspective that All Steel has around better portfolio. Um, but I think it is about that incremental change and making that positive impact over time.

And I've seen us just grow over the last five years [00:04:00] in tremendous ways.

Avi: Absolutely. I love the tagline, better Choices for Better Tomorrow, because I. In it is also this understanding that if you as Allsteel make better choices, it enables your clients, you know, people who are actually building offices, you know, renovating offices to make better choices themselves, and then that can mean better impact for their organizations, for their stakeholders.

Um, you know, for the places that they're operating in. And, and so, you know, all these things that you laid out, Lisa, that you do, you know, at h and i and all Steel, um, have that, have that effect. Right. Um, where you're making impact in organizations. Madison, I want to bring you in here because you have a great example of that recently, some work that you did with a client, uh, around drywall.

Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, so I mean, we've always known for a long

Lisa: time that the benefits to using an architectural product solution are otherwise known as a demountable Walls solution.

We knew that the sustainability benefits were there, but we had never ified it. So we went [00:05:00] through this lifecycle assessment where we took conventional construction versus demountable construction, and we really wanted to quantify

the results, not only in carbon emissions, but deferral of landfill waste.

And when we got the results, I. I mean my, me personally, I was blown away, but the rest of the team was blown away too. We expected that the results would be good because as the product is reconfiguring, we're not tearing down drywall and re-putting it up. We're just moving the product around. But what we found is that through the work that Lisa's Team has done in terms of our operations and our supply chain, but also inherently within the product. We had a 56% reduction of carbon emissions at the time of install, which goes to show that the product is more sustainable just inherently. You don't have to move it around to make it sustainable. You

don't have to reuse it to make it sustainable.

We, through our operations, through our supply chain, through the product decisions that we made, have designed a product that has 56% carbon emissions, and when it really clicked for me. 56% is the equivalent of 104,000 just [00:06:00] over miles driven by a gasoline powered vehicle that's equivalent to driving around the world four times and just carbon emissions just at the time of install.

So can you imagine if we're now moving the product around, I'm really proud of those results because now that we have them and we've made it digestible and understandable, we can empower our clients with that information and say, let us help you through this journey. It's a new way of thinking when using architectural products, but we're here and we can help.

you through it.

Avi: Yeah, absolutely. I love that because, um, you start with a baseline responsible product, and then if people use it in responsible ways, in flexible ways, you can then multiply that impact, you know, and so then that. Ca that, you know, gap, that chasm between a demountable wall and a drywall is going to continue to widen right over the life of that product.

That's incredible. Um, Lisa, tell me about how you communicate this kind of impact, for your clients. How do you, what are your thoughts about how, uh, a company [00:07:00] like Allstate could actually, work with your clients to help them understand, you know, if they were to make this choice A versus choice B.

What a huge difference it can

make.

Lisa: Definitely. I mean, I think it's about having those conversations early, right? In the process, especially with architectural product. How do we have it before they've selected and who is the person to have it with? Is it the gc? Is it the designer? I think that's where it gets a little tricky.

Um. But I do think now we have some data to really pinpoint to the fact that this is beneficial. And if you're concerned about carbon, here's a better choice that you can make. You know, one of the things we're working on with a client is they wanna see a reuse calculator for architectural products. So we're building a carbon calculator for them to use because they take product and they put in inventory.

And then they take it out of inventory, and they're doing this swap all the time. So through this calculator, we're giving them the capability to see what's the improvement of carbon that they're having by reusing materials, by reusing our product. And that's one way that we're [00:08:00] translating that information into like an actual use perspective.

Avi: That's incredible. Um, so a, you know, make an impact, uh, with clients because of product, but then b also build tools for them help them understand that impact better. I love

that. But sometimes it's also the project or the client that pushes you forward.

Um, you know, recently, uh, y'all worked on the Living Building Challenge, certified Stanley Center. I mean, that's the most rigorous sustainable certification we have in the world. Um, and I'm sure it put y'all through the ringer as well. Uh, tell me about that. Um, how do you match product to a project that's aiming for such a high standard?

Lisa: I think when we started on the San Lee Center, we didn't know. We had no idea, right?

Like we have been working towards chemical transparency in all of materials by spend, working at it from a very high organizational perspective and trying to capture all the supply chain data. We hadn't translated that to a product at the time. So when we got the ask from the [00:09:00] Stanley Center, we were.

Determined to be in that building. I mean, they're right around the corner from our corporate headquarters. How could we not like the Living Building Challenge perspective, the organization that they are. Um, and just that local partnership that we have. We even have like similar founders, so we were determined to be in, but that was quite an extensive road to get there.

Um, so one thing we realized was, you know, at the time we didn't have a dedicated like. Huge product sustainability team. So we were all hands on deck. We had to build a team and come together to try and make sure we were getting the information from suppliers. We had to work with Iowa State to do testing of our product.

Um, and then we had to remove, you know, we had found PVC in the product. We had to move it and find alternatives. So it was. An extensive road to get there, but we were extremely determined. We joked that we would like walk the product down the street if we had to, um, to get there. So I would say each project is slightly different, right?

But we are there to work together with our clients and really find the [00:10:00]solution. I don't think there's like a one size fits all. It really depends on what their goals are, what they're trying to achieve. But I do think the beauty of is it, it lines up with our corporate goal, but it might be pushing us to really focus on an individual product that they're concerned about.

It's not that we weren't thinking about it. We were just taking a different approach. and the other piece that I really wanna call out too is like that trickle down from our customers to us, also happened from us to our supply chain. So Stanley Center was a great example of that, where when we started that outreach with suppliers, they were like, well, you're the only ones asking for this.

And we had to kind of hold hands for that information. And now they're coming to us with innovative ideas. And to me that shows that we are really making a dent and making success here. and that is the most exciting thing.

Madison: Yeah.

I think from my perspective on the Stanley Center project, what really stuck out to the architectural products team, because there's so much architectural products being used in that building, is it forced us as all steel and h and i to look in the mirror and say, how can we do better?

And I think the sign of a really great collaboration with our clients is [00:11:00]holding each other accountable to constantly achieve these goals together. And so with architectural products, Lisa mentioned we had to send certain things off to test As just one example for us, we tested, you know, tens of thousands of individual parts to understand the chemical makeup.

And one we couldn't determine, so we sent it off to the, to the university. They tested it for us. We found that it had that chemical in it and we didn't want to, you know, advocate for that. So we changed it. And now we can proudly say that we our red list approved, declare labels for our entire architectural products portfolio.

And that came from a client just saying, Hey, what do you think about partnering with me on this? So not only is Lisa's team doing really great work in terms of setting goals for us and constantly pushing the needle, but we're also open and accepting to have that same conversation with our clients and say, well, how can you push us to help us be better for you?

Avi: You

know,

I love

this conversation because, um, for so long, sustainability was very, um, organizationally driven.

You know, [00:12:00] how can our organization do better for our operations? Right? But then you find out that what you do in your organization has this upstream. Impact on your clients and a downstream impact on your own supply chain. And then you start to become a node in change happening across the supply chain.

And I think with furniture, for all the reasons I spoke about right at the start of the episode, is really powerful when that happens. Um, you know, you, you, there's just, there's such, such a large network of people involved in this industry and I think we can make real change happen. Tell me a little bit about some of the, uh, operational changes you've been making.

Uh, Lisa, you mentioned right at the start, uh, with your packaging, with your sourcing. Uh, tell us about some of the things that All Steel has been doing

internally.

Lisa: I think you're exactly right. I do feel like that's the shift that's happened over the last few years. Like the organizational is expected, but they wanna see the story and the impact at the product level. Um, but I am really proud of our organizational work at the same time because of that square footage that we own and manage and run.

[00:13:00] So we've reduced our scope one and two. Greenhouse gas emissions by 79%. Um, a lot of that is coming from purchase of renewable energy. We installed two onsite solar, um. A raise at two of our largest manufacturing facilities, which is really exciting. Um, but we're also working to reduce energy use. So we have teams looking and doing energy treasure hunts and trying to investigate ways to, um, become more efficient, find heat recovery options, you know, reduce natural gas usage.

And they're just doing that all the time, finding those opportunities. So I think we've seen real momentum and, and positive impact on those energy projects. We're moving to zero waste to landfill. We have 11 out of 29 facilities that have already hit that. So 95% diversion and also eliminating waste in the process, right?

Not just finding, uh, mechanisms to recycle it, but uh, working to eliminate the waste or bring it back and find ways to reuse it. And then from the supply chain perspective, you know, I think it's really building that [00:14:00] partnership. It's educating together, it's having the conversations with our supply chain.

Uh, you know, I speak at our supplier conference and I have a lot of time with suppliers just because I think. Just like we need that partnership with our customers. We need that partnership with our suppliers. And I feel like they are growing and they are starting to come with a, to us with options. Um, so I feel like the industry itself is starting to grow up a little here.

Um, I don't hear that. We're the only ones requesting these things anymore, which is really exciting. Um. There is a lot, I'm sure I'm missing things. Packaging. We're moving to, we've eliminated all styrofoam, um, in, across all of our brands and we're moving to a hundred percent recyclable packaging. I think the extended producer responsibility regulations that we see across the United States are also really aligned well with our goals.

So I think that's the beauty of having, you know, strong, uh, corporate level goals is you can not react when these new things come out, whether they're coming from customers or whether they're coming from a regulatory perspective. Uh, we're looking at what that landscape looks [00:15:00] like when we set those goals to make sure that we're gonna have h and i prepared

Avi: you're on the. Front lines, right. With your customers, um, how, how are you having conversations around sustainability with them? How do you help them understand the impact that allsteel can help make for them? Yeah, I mean, no, it's a great question. think first and foremost, it's, it's gauging their, um, how knowledgeable they are on the subject, because you can really get into the weeds on sustainability, and Lisa and I talk about this all the time of like, well, you don't wanna lose the audience by getting into Scope three reductions and stuff right away.

Madison: But it's just having the conversation of we can be better. And let's talk about that. Let's talk about your goals. What do those goals look like? Are you trying to reduce overall renewable energy? Are you trying to reduce landfill waste? All of these things. For architectural products, we really focus on carbon emissions and deferral of landfill waste.

You know that with conventional construction, a lot of that goes directly to landfill. So how can we have this conversation of if we think differently, [00:16:00] understand, we've been building with gypsum for years and years and years, and it's familiar and there's comfort in that. But we're gonna be here with you and walk you through this.

We've got many teams on the architectural products team that are here to support them. We've got a great design team that can talk them through the design process, a project management team. Our product team, myself, as well as my team members, are so accessible to our clients to ask these questions. And then not only that, we have a great relationship with Lisa and she's willing to come in on these conversations that we may need to get more technical and actually quantify some of these results.

So something that we've developed recently. Lisa's talk about, talked about the reconfiguration calculator. We do have a calculator associated to our lifecycle assessment where I can input the lineal footage of how much architectural products they're using, and then it will spit out the results to me in terms of carbon emission reduction in landfill deferral.

So it makes it immediately understandable by the client of, oh, No, here's my direct impact and I can [00:17:00] understand it right away. And that usually is when it starts to click. So the more that we can make sustainability not this amorphous thing that seems really hard to comprehend, the more that we can show them, we're here with you.

We're walking you through step by step. We're learning together the conversations seem to go a lot better.

Lisa: I think to add, um, a little bit there, whether it be our operations or customers, sometimes we need to speak in their language, right? So whether it's simplifying it or if I need to talk in dollars, right?

Like we have saved real money for the corporation in terms of energy, um, reductions in terms of waste diversion, like that's equates to real money. That used to be opposed to talking in those terms, right? Like how do we be more altruistic? But at times, if that gets us where we need to go, I think it's still a worthwhile conversation to have and sometimes you have to translate it into the metrics that other people care about.

Mm-hmm.

Avi: I mean, because that's the, that's the beauty of doing sustainability work, Lisa, is that is right?

Is that it has all [00:18:00] these multiple benefits. Right? a material is healthy. It can help a supplier kind of grow their business. it makes a good impact on the people who manufacture that material. It makes a good impact on the people who use the material. It can make a good impact for a company who chooses to buy that material, right?

It's just, it has all these like multiplier benefits and the more we're able to articulate that, you know, the more we make a better case for, um, more responsible

manufacturing.

my last question to you both, How can companies leverage their purchasing or their business with h and i and with all three in particular, uh, for even more impact?

What can they be doing more

with you?

Lisa: I think

some of it is just have the conversation.

Let us know what your goals are like. I think if we're having conversations about what sustainability goals that you have, we can help to meet it. There's product that we have within our portfolio that can satisfy that, and then I think we're not opposed to having a project. Right, like where we do an [00:19:00]investigation, some of these projects we didn't know the outcome.

Um, but I think that's okay. Like we've got to dig in and kind of understand the data and work together on this. So I think just be willing to have the conversation with us and let's collaborate.

Yeah.

I completely agree, Lisa. It's took the words right outta

Madison: my mouth is just ask the question if you have sustainability goals or if you don't even have a goal yet in mind and you're just, how do I be more sustainable in my purchasing or my operations?

Just ask the question again. That's a sign of a really beautiful partnership. All steel, like Lisa said, when we started these projects, it could have not came out in a favorable outcome for us,

and in some ways it didn't, but it forced us to hold ourselves accountable and make the changes that needed to be changed.

And with us having such an impact in terms of our manufacturing and whatnot, we hold ourselves accountable. I'm really, really proud of the fact that I can go down to the manufacturing facility. And I see our plant members saying, we should change this. This is not the sustainable way of doing this. We need, [00:20:00] and they, it works all its way, all the way up.

And so the fact that I can go down there and we're now recycling everything, it makes it, I don't know. These are stories that I can come to our clients with and say that this is a domino effect. The more that we make change, the more that you make change, this is all gonna build up to each other. So just ask the question.

At this point, we're learning just as much as they're learning and we can do it together rather than in these silos.

Avi: Yeah, Absolutely.

Thank you so much, Lisa and and Madison for joining me today. This has been such a wonderful conversation. So wonderful to hear what you've been doing internally at seo, but also how you've been making an impact for your customers and your clients.

Thank

you

so

much.

Thank you.

Deep Green is produced by the Surround Podcast Network, and this episode was produced in partnership with Alte. Thank you to our guests, Lisa Bruney McDermott and Madison Gentry for joining us today. Thank you also to the surround podcast team, our producers, Rob Schulte and Rachel Senator. with support from [00:21:00] Lauren Voker

A new episode of Tweeting Drops every month, so look out for the next episode in just a few weeks, wherever you get your podcasts.