Climate Complexities with the Queer Brown Vegan

This transcription was made in part by an automated service, in some cases it may contain errors. 

Jon: [00:00:00] Welcome to break some dishes,

Verda: defying the rules to inspire design.

Jon: I’m Jon Strossner

Verda: and I’m Virta Alexander.

Jon: Virta, we continue to bust and break and annihilate. Dishes. It’s so much better than having to clean them.

Verda: Although this one was a bit of a big mess. We sure broke a few dishes today. Wow. Well, John, once again, you pick a guest that I hadn’t heard of and amazing, amazing choice here.

The. Oh, my goodness. What? Queer, vegan, brown, queer, brown,

Jon: vegan. We’ll get

Verda: it. We’ll get it right now. This interview starts.

Jon: Hey, this is going to be a great conversation with Isaiah. You’re, you’re going to love them because it’s another first for us. We’re, you and I are going to be talking to an educator, a climate content creator, um, a TikTok star, right?

So, um, He is tackling climate change and he’s teaching people about climate change and it’s his, it’s his passion. Like Johan wanted to save the northern bald ibis. Ibis. Ibis. You say ibis, I say ibis. You say potato, I say potato. All right. Well, anyway, those beautiful birds. So Hey, um, Isaiah is trying to save his Social space and we’re gonna hear, we’re gonna hear how he does that.

I’m excited. You excited?

Verda: Absolutely. He’s got a very unique perspective and if you check out his Website, which I did in order to prep for this story. He’s for this podcast He writes on so many different topics and very eloquently and yeah, he’s definitely an educator I’m learning a lot from just pouring through his book blog posts.

Jon: Yeah. Yeah. He’s very prolific. Yeah. So, Hey, Verda, knock, knock.

Verda: Who’s there?

Jon: Isaiah Hernandez. How’s that for an introduction? I would

music: say that

Isaias: my journey for environmentalism, sorry, when I was young. So I think growing up in poverty in Los Angeles really shaped. My experiences in the ways that I was able to illustrate the curiosity that I had for the environment.

And so I think my earliest memories started off as a teenager. So my dad would take me on the weekends with my brother and him to go clean gardens. Because my dad’s a gardener and a landscaper. And I remember always fighting with him about like, why do I have to work on the weekends? He’s like, well, because, you know, we’re immigrants and this is how your life is.

And I said, okay. Um, and I remember at a very early age, like just recognizing like, wow, all of these like affluent areas in Los Angeles, they have like clean air. They have really good green spaces. They have really good infrastructure. I wonder why it looks like this and why it doesn’t look like this in my community.

And my dad said, well, you know, it’s cause we’re, we’re poor and like, you know, we’re, we don’t have much resources. And I said, okay, well, that just means that we didn’t work hard in life. And so. I think that like in, in the classroom, when I learned about climate change, I was in middle school and I remember I was like in sixth grade, it was like the year 2006 or 7, and it said the benefits of global warming.

It said more sunnier days, happy cows, and less rain. And I said, wow, that’s really cool. Like that’s a, that’s such a good thing about global warming.

Verda: That’s what they’re teaching you in school these days. Oh my God.

Isaias: And I look back and I’m like, wow, that was really bad information we were taught. More sunny days, more sunny days, um, on the end.

And so I think that’s really what captivated the experience, but I think that, you know, it was kind of like, as I got older, I started to ask more questions of like, you know, I watch Al Gore, um, the movie that he produced and like the inconvenient truth. And then just realized like, wow, there’s so many things that like, you know, are happening in the world today.

And I think at the end of the day in high school. I studied environmental science because one, I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. And two is just like, Oh, well, in the environment sounds like a cool major. So that’s kind of my trajectory. I went into environmental science at Berkeley, um, and then recognize that I’d take math and science classes, which was a huge turnoff for me, but I ended up taking them and yeah, became a climate media creator after graduation.

Um, when I was, I stopped working in the industry and just, Say it said to myself, like, it’s time to go independent and do media.

Verda: John, do you feel like you’re doing something wrong here? Like he’s making money at this.

Jon: I know. And it’s because he got such a good education in high school with more sunny days.

If that doesn’t motivate you, nothing will, but you could not have gotten career advice. It said, Isaiah’s go out and be a climate. content creator. That was a [00:05:00] risk.

Isaias: Yeah, no, it was a huge risk. And I would say that, you know, it’s interesting. Like after post grad is usually like your early twenties, like everyone says is like probably the most hardest times of your life.

Career wise, I applied to all the environmental nonprofits, like Greenpeace, 350, Sierra club, WDF, Nature Conservancy. So I applied to these nonprofits and I got interviews for a lot of them. Some of them I got, you know, some standard rejections and I made it to two rounds of interviews. And in the end of the interviews when they rejected me, they said, You don’t have that much good climate work documented.

And I was like, really confused because this is the year 2018. And as you know, a lot of nonprofits were on Facebook, somewhere on Instagram, but didn’t really see the value of Instagram as much. And I said, you know, Instagram is really a good platform to reach younger people and, and, and tick tock. And they were like, yeah, no, we’re not interested in that.

And so when I got rejected from all the environmental nonprofit jobs, I ended up getting a job in the creative agency. So it was really weird. Like I got the job, like from an, imagine an environmental science student working in an industry with all artists and graph. Yeah. They, they even were confused why I was there.

And I said, well, you know, I’m, I am creative at heart, but my expertise is in the environment and they said, well, If you can do anything, then do it, right? So I’m a, you know, I’m a hard worker. I, I’ll, I’ll put myself through it. And when I went through the industry and worked there for two years, you know, out of my life, nonstop startup life.

And then I left to go into sustainability jobs. I enjoyed it. Um, I just felt so empty. I felt like I wasn’t using my degree for anything I really wanted to do, which is education. And so I created, uh, Queer Brown Vegan in 2019 cause I was in New York. I was. didn’t have that much money, um, was lonely, was just like, you know what?

I got to do something with my life. Like I’m 23 now. And if I don’t do something with my life, like I’m going to regret it in the future.

Jon: Well, what did you want to do when you created Queer Brown Vegan?

Isaias: I think when I created Queer Brown Vegan, I kind of saw it as like, A platform just to talk about like education and the environment.

Like I said, how cool would it be to be like the next generation of like the bill nines or like the chain good all is that instead of these people that got their work into like doing science and, you know, frontline work, but also media work, what about social media? Like, and I, and I saw that as a, as a probable way because I saw influencers and I said, you know, what if I can make this account into education, but also talk about my life.

And try to brand myself. And I had the experience in my creative industry where I said, I know how to build a brand that’s easy. And so I built the brand on the basis that like, You know, I, I was strategic of how I wanted to do it, but I, I think my, my full dream was to say, this would be cool to become my full time job and then I’ll have to rely on any company anymore.

Jon: Wow. One of the things that Verda and I really focus on this season with our podcast is, um, we felt we’re trying to find activists and, and some of them are accidental. They didn’t set out to be an activist, but we’re, we’re finding people who are doing Themselves to save their own particular ecosystem.

Right? And so I told Verda, I said, I think Isaiah’s fits perfectly with our conversation because he’s saving his own unique ecosystem. It’s his social space. In the process of doing that, you’re creating a body of content and education that is really beneficial for people in your generation.

Isaias: Yeah, absolutely.

And I think the importance of that is it comes from the fact that, you know, my mom was an educator. So like my mom went to college in Mexico and, you know, when she moved over to the United States, she was deemed as undocumented. So therefore she was not able to teach. And so I think for me, like environmental education was the gateway for me because I realized how frustrating it was as a young person of color.

Not feeling smart enough in undergrad. Like when I was at Berkeley and I tell this to people every day, like I doubted my intelligence or my ability to be in that school. And like, I would say I do have trauma from higher education and I I’ve worked through it over the years, but

Jon: you

Isaias: know, I think for me, like it was the basis when I created this account was like, yeah, it’d be cool if it’s my job.

But the main dream was just like, let me just teach young people of color this information where they don’t need to feel judged and they don’t need to feel like I’m going to grade them or give them an F or that that’s wrong. I just wanted to give back because I was like, it shouldn’t have taken me until I was 21 to learn about about climate crisis, like it should be taught younger.

And like, this is ridiculous. Like, I can’t wait for schools to change. Like, I need to take it my own advantage and teach my own community.

Verda: Yeah, just a great charter. There’s so many topics that we can talk about, you know, environmental racism, uh, intersectional environmentalism, collective liberation, vegan is in your name.

So maybe we touch on that first for a little bit. Uh, last week we talked to a conservationist trying to save an endangered bird [00:10:00] called the bald ibis, bald

Jon: ibis. After this, you have to Google

Isaias: it.

Verda: It’s a very ugly. I need to

Isaias: Google it now.

Verda: I mean, it’s, he’s been doing this for 30 years, like taking care of these birds and flying them over the Alps because they’ve lost their flight path because due to climate change, they’re not able to, to take the migration path that they normally take.

It was fascinating. But anyways, In large part, they’re going, they’ve gone extinct. They went extinct and they were in zoos and now he’s trying to repopulate them, but they’ve gone extinct because they’ve lost their habitat.

music: And

Verda: as we know, you know, 90 percent of global deforestation is due to agriculture production.

music: And

Verda: 68 percent of that is for meat, for livestock. Right. Tell us a little bit more about. How you landed on veganism.

Isaias: Yeah. So I landed on the, the label of vegan for the brand because it just, it flowed well, like queer, Brown, vegan. Um, actually the early iterations of the day before it was created, I remember telling my friend, we did this like soundboard, he’s like green boy, vegan, or queer, Brown, green.

And then it was just sounded so wrong. And I just said, you know what, like. But what if that’s queer, brown, vegan? And they’re like, that’s so, it flows well, but also it’s like, it can, it could flow not well towards people who are not vegan and they think I’m going to judge them. And I think my veganism journey started in college when I was in this like industrialized food, global food system course at Berkeley.

And I had a topic with the group and this is before I was vegan. I was, I ate meat. Um, I had this topic of debate, whether factory farm meat or organic meat is better for the environment. So realistically, you delve into those data stats of like, you know, it’s, it creates a large emissions, like from factory farms, polluting the local waterways, because there’s no sewage, proper sewage system for animals, unlike human society that we have today, um, that leaks out chemicals, it goes to nearby rural communities, they get disrupted, they have awful smells there, but also like our emissions from the mechanized machinery that we use from the chemicals and fertilizers.

to the privatization of those resources. So when I was researching this project, I found out that, you know, the animal gets slaughtered at the end. And I said, well, this sounds a little bit counterintuitive. And I remember I had this, there was this vegan in my group and she was very at, like, I thought she was like a PETA vegan.

Like I was just like, well, this woman is insane. Like I can’t, she was like. It doesn’t matter. Like none of them are sustainable for the planet. I’m like, Oh, okay. And she was like, if you’re not vegan, you shouldn’t even call yourself an environmentalist. And I was like,

Jon: see, those are bad vegans. Those people don’t help the movement.

They don’t,

Isaias: they really don’t. It’s very binary. And I, and I was like, Oh, well, I don’t agree with that because I’ve been trying to fight for the planet. And then they were like, what do you eat meat? I’m like, well, I don’t really eat red meat, but I eat chicken. Like, you know, cause I, I’m, I was. I was always on the go.

I just said, I’ll eat anything because I don’t have any money. So, you know, at the end of the presentation, we present it and then we say organic meat is the best technically, because technically it is from an environmental standpoint, the way that the animals are raised, um, in that argument, and then I think for me, like at the end of college, I, I don’t know why, but I felt like, you know, I should try doing something for myself, but.

Don’t do it because of interrogation. Do it because of education. And so I looked more of those facts, like you were saying, and then eventually it was just like, you know what, I’m going to go vegan. I told my friends, like, it was like a few days before graduation. I said, you guys, I’m going to go vegan. And they all laughed at me.

And they’re like, you can’t do that. And I’m like, I can, I can guys. And they’re like, maybe vegetarian. So I transitioned out. I went vegan. slowly went vegetarian. And then, um, three months later I went vegan after I was living in Oakland when I graduated college. And it was amazing to me because I felt like the first year when you’re vegan, I don’t know, I kind of acted that way too, like low key judging my friends.

And I was like, that’s wrong. I don’t want to give that message of what I learned. And also that person that was vegan ended up not becoming vegan anymore. So it was fascinating. Now, for those

Jon: people that don’t know, can we explain the difference between being a vegetarian and being a vegan?

Isaias: Yes, absolutely.

So vegetarian just means that you do not consume any, um, animal based meat. So meat, chicken, or fish, and veganism is basically saying that you don’t consume any animal derived, um, substitutes from what they come from, whether that’s their eggs, whether that’s. The milk, whether that’s through the dairy, dairy and eggs.

And so veganism is more on that, but it’s also veganism more like a philosophical approach. I always tell people it’s like more about understanding the ways that you can extend compassion to life itself. Like that’s how I see it. And I thought I don’t think veganism to me is like. the one way to understand animal liberation either.

I just think it’s a way for people to [00:15:00] extend themselves. And I, and I saw it that way, but I think that a lot of people see it differently. And the militant vegans are somewhere where I, I really try to avoid those people.

Jon: Yeah. I don’t blame you.

Verda: Veganism is pretty, pretty hard to, to do and stick with. And I think just cutting back from eating meat, not, not eating red meat or, you know, all of that helps.

Jon: Yeah. And I read a

Verda: crazy statistic. If everybody on this planet switched to a plant based diet, we would cut emissions by Almost 30 percent the equivalent of India going carbon neutral, the entire country of India. That’s crazy. We could almost solve the climate crisis just by eating differently.

Jon: Yeah, but I think, Verdi, you bring up a good point.

It’s, you know, you don’t have to go from a normal diet to a vegan diet. You know, overnight, you can ease into it, you can transition, you can make, I think, a big difference just by saying what you said, Virta. You know, I reduce my consumption of red meat and even that will have an impact for sure. You know, absolutely.

Verda: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, let’s switch. Let’s switch it up a little. I read, I picked this up when I was in New York City. Let’s see. Your short essay is in here. I’ve got to plug the Slow Factory. They’re an amazing, absolutely amazing educational institution. Um, and you wrote what collective liberation means to me.

Could you summarize that for the audience? It’s an, it’s an, it’s a great term, and I don’t think that it’s, it’s gained a whole lot of traction yet, and probably people don’t really know what it means.

Isaias: First of all, collective liberation, and I love Sofactor. I’m one of their fellows. So, collective liberation is a way to value all sentient life species, but recognizes that, right, collective liberation and its foundation comes from many Black and Indigenous feminist scholars that have always talked about the rise of white supremacy and how anti Blackness and anti Indigeneity really reflects the ways of how our cultural society is treating marginalized groups.

And so what collective liberation is basically saying, and like, this is kind of parallel to the term total liberation, is that we cannot be liberated from each other unless we rely on the same, if we build out a new system. So some of the foundations around collective liberation looks at this idea of interdependence, right?

So like creating this circulized, um, holistic system that does not negatively discharge and, and destroy humans or non human animals, but it is also rooted in also understanding the history. of what has happened because history provides context and context gives us resistance. And so what we’re seeing today, right, in all the, in all of the poly crisises that are experiencing from Sudan, Congo, um, you know, Israel, Palestine, you know, we’re, we’re seeing this multitudes of high severities of issues that are, are constantly happening.

And I think that with collected liberation, it provides us a lens to not just like. understand what needs to be rebuilt and what needs to be dismantled, but how to take care of each other. And I think that because in the Western societies here, we’re very rooted in this idealism of the American dream, individualism, um, you know, hyper consumerism to fill those empty voids in our hearts.

And collective liberation is a way to really push back and to say, who are your neighbors? Who is your community, your lifeline, or is it your iPhone, your lifeline? And so it kind of really reexamines those like power structures that have been held from both the institutional spaces, but also the traditional community spaces that have been plagued, unfortunately, by a lot of racial and microaggressive biases towards black indigenous people of color.

So for me, the way that I saw collective liberation, um, in that essay, and I wrote that almost like a year and a half ago. So I’m sorry if I don’t remember word to word on that end, but I think for me, it was just about. really creating momentum of how to sustainably love yourself and sustainably loving yourself isn’t just encompassed on the individual hearts, encompassed on those around you constantly.

Verda: Yeah, it’s like love thy neighbor and you’ll experience joy and happiness. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. And I think that ties into this term that you wanted to explore a little bit, which is something I think it’s your latest post. John, did you want to?

Jon: Yeah, I read your latest post, Isaiah. I love your blog, by the way.

You’re very prolific. And, uh, yeah, you great writer, great writer. Um, and you, you shared some information, um, Around this new term petro masculinity and I get triggered by the fossil fuel industry So as soon as I saw that, you know, you had me but can you talk a little bit about that?

Isaias: Yeah,

Jon: they’d have a follow up

Isaias: Yeah, absolutely.

No, we love this. So Petro masculinity was coined by Professor Kara Daggett back a few years ago. And I always recommend people that she is the OG person that we should always talk to. But Petro masculinity is basically kind of describing the ways in [00:20:00] which fossil fuel identities have become part of our cultural dominant society.

And it’s, it’s masculinity, you’re like, Oh, men and. oil, like what’s, what’s behind that? And what Kara Daggett was basically saying is that the consumption of fossil fuel industry since the 1850s of industrialization have become such a large megahorse of economic power, but also political power that is also reflecting on the decisions of the ways that we really talk about natural resources in the land.

And you know, she uses this very simple example in the beginning of like, The, uh, the notion of car culture, right? And men using cars. Now, I think what people are really misconstruing about her work is that she’s not saying that men in cars driving are the issue. She’s saying that looking at the develop, the early history of the ways that cars are being advertised towards specifically men, because men have often benefited from the fossil fuel industry because they work in that industry.

If you look at the ads, it says, very much rooted on this idea of misogyny to

Jon: rugged. Yeah,

Isaias: rugged. You want to be the best man out there to win the best woman or woman only care about the man’s car. And it’s very sexist type messaging. And I think what Kara Daggett was saying now in our current society is that energy policies reflect.

Petro masculinity because the individuals who are pushing for those harmful energy policies are usually men that are working in these industries. But to further also kind of like solidify a little bit of that summarized view is that she talks a lot about too the ways in which the fossil fuel industries have committed harm and violence towards people.

Um, black indigenous people of color who are often women, girls, non binary people,

music: fems,

Isaias: and the last thing is that, you know, it’s been found by like organizations like Greenpeace like, and this is tied to the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women movement, Is that a lot of the man caps that are being built around these indigenous reservations with a lot of these men that come from rural areas from fossil fuel industries to work in the natural gas or fossil fuel industry have high rates of violence and abuse towards indigenous communities.

And so this is kind of goes back to this idea that, um, The symbolic imagery of fossil fuels goes beyond just the money of being profitable, beyond this idea of wanting to constantly dominate earth and displace and harm specifically a lot of women and non binary people in those spaces.

Verda: Well, yeah, and I think it’s, it’s men in power, right?

Isaias: Yeah.

Verda: 88 percent of The billionaires are men.

Isaias: Yeah, right. Exactly. And

Verda: very fewer women. And I just was reading an article in New York Times that I think ties right into this narrative of fossil fuels, power, dominance, strength, right? You’ve got Biden. He’s, Pro climate, right? A lot of great policy, but guess what?

All of a sudden this line can’t come straight out of the New York times. The global energy landscape has been transformed by us dominance in gas.

Jon: The

Verda: word is dominance. And this is, this is an article about the pipeline that’s going through Baja and, and is going to take. All this natural gas to Asia.

Right. So again, you know, we, it’s hard for these men in power

Jon: to let it go.

Verda: Yeah. To let it go. Here we are America. We can dominate again. Right.

Jon: And I’ve read a lot that, um, has shown with very clear proof and very clear cases that the fossil fuel industry is following in the footsteps of the, of the tobacco industry.

Right. In terms of how it is fooling the public and

music: outmaneuvering the opposition

Jon: by creating a facade that’s different than what it actually is. So that’s, that’s interesting. And I do think the cigarette industry had that, that masculinity thing going on and the dominance. And all that.

Isaias: Yeah.

Jon: We’ve talked about collective liberation, we’ve talked about veganism, we’ve talked about now petro masculinity. Do you feel that? Your narrative, your climate narrative is different than a traditional climate narrative or environmental or sustainability narrative.

Isaias: It’s interesting you say that because I think that, you know, all narratives are unique for themselves.

from the governmental narratives of climate. They have their unique narrative from nonprofits institutions that have to follow some certain, um, praxis and practice of their, their storytelling. I think on my narrative, I think it counters a lot of the dominant climate narratives out of there. You know, like one thing I always say is that like for [00:25:00] young people.

I think the young climate narrative is always often focused on the young climate activists who was done dirty or disrespected or displaced or something that happens, right? Very, very rooted on the trauma aspect, I would say. I think for me, what has helped me stay, I don’t want to say relevant, but understanding of my narrative is the fact that like, I don’t, I constantly involve my narratives outside of those dominant spaces, whether people like it or not.

And I think for me, like as an independent climate media creative, I was, I’m always very interested in just like being like, yes, we get it. Like I grew up in poverty. I grew up, I had these experiences and like, you know, went through all this in college and did my platform. I love those experiences, but part of it’s already dead to me.

It’s kind of like, I’ve already outgrown that experience. experience. And I think my new narrative I have today is just really unpacking a lot of the serious things that are happening in our society by getting and tapped to the hearts of other peoples, by interviewing them and by doing different storytelling.

But I do think that like, you know, I think because I’ve been in so much in the climate space for years, I’ve often felt like realistically, like, Kind of, um, burned out and, or kind of like, I see through it, some of the narratives sometimes. And I’m just like, I’m very interested in like expanding a new narrative for myself, not really focusing on what is going to popularize out there.

And I think one of the things too, it’s interesting is that I tell people like, why is it that, you know, why is it that we, we have large centralized of older climate people narratives, but then we have this very select few of young climate people narratives. And what happens to those young people when they get older?

They’re not the, the same young teenager or the young college kid or the, you know, what like, and I think that to me is something where I realized, like, because I don’t really prescribe to that dominant narrative as much either. I feel like I’ve been able to just like, build out. It’s like, you’re old, young, whatever you may think I am, like, I’m going to continue rewriting that narrative and that’s just focused on the ways I really approach my work is what makes it unique, I would say.

Jon: I think also you may have been. Unfairly categorized as somebody whose voice or narrative was for young people only because you were out there on instagram and tick tock and I’m 58 years old and I’m, you know, you, you got me, I’m engaged with your narrative. So I, I do think you have transcended any sort of generational outreach and I think that the messaging that you’re sending out there is.

I, we should all be picking it up. I just think it’s a lot more sophisticated and Verda, I, I want to know what you think about this as well, because I feel like as we’re literally in the middle of our fifth season podcasting and um, well, I mean, Verda, we probably never could have seen that coming, but. The, the narrative that we’ve been collecting over the years, I think has gotten so much more sophisticated.

We started out talking to people who were, you know, who were making packaging out of, you know, better materials and, you know, like it’s just got, it’s evolved. Verda, like, what do you think?

Verda: I’m kind of still thinking about this idea of cross pollination, young and old and diverse voices. And I think one of the challenges that I have with a couple of my climate organizations is they’re not diverse.

They’re very white. They’re kinda like the hippie, Berkeley kind of.

Isaias: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah.

Verda: You know, and how do we get that diversity?

Jon: Uh, Isaiah does, I listen to one of your Instagram reels where you said you went into your environmental science class at uc, Berkeley, and it was just these white kids in funny hats with granola bars on their desks.

And the movement has to evolve. It has to.

Isaias: It has to. And I think that, you know, I, I still struggle to this. Till this day where it’s like some of the top climate scientists, like they follow me and I follow them back and they’re white and most of them are men. And like, I, I feel like there’s still sometimes even a disconnect with them.

Like I can’t really seek them for mentorship as like from male to male. And I, and I feel like it’s sometimes really like, they’re like, I’m in my research or like the, um, the Al Gore people. It’s like, I, I don’t really prescribe to that narrative as much. And I think his narrative is so impactful and it’s so needed.

Yeah. But it almost seems as if like, you know, like you’re constantly doubting yourself in those spaces. And I think for so long, I remember like my team being like, Isaiah’s like, why aren’t you in Latin spaces or LGBT spaces as much? Like, why are you constantly put yourself in climate spaces? I’m like, you know what?

That’s so true. Like, I don’t need to do this anymore. Like I, I’m tired of it. And I, and I think it’s like, It’s very weird where it’s like, I like, even in these spaces in these organizations, like my intelligence is a question. My thought process is question. Um, [00:30:00] I don’t know if this is a very unique dynamic, but I often feel that like men in the climate space that are older, either they despise me or are threatened by me.

And they’ll, and they’ll help, they’ll help like the opposite gender for me, but I’ve often found it like, and this is like different thing too, with my friends who are women of color, like white women are more than always more than willing to like help me and like, you know, help me in that way. And also women, but like men in general, like, it’s just a very hard thing where it’s like, they just don’t, I don’t know if they can’t stand someone that’s younger than them.

That’s also being in this industry that’s getting noticed, but it just feels like this weird disconnect with that.

Jon: That’s a shame that there is that out there. And I think that’s very sad and it doesn’t help the movement.

Verda: It’s, it’s challenging. And I think it’s something the movement has to, has to really work on, but back to that, sophistication of messaging, I think the more we do talk about these themes that aren’t super easy to grasp.

So you’re doing a lot in this area of intersectionality, right? For one, I think is, is really important. And then these, Larger ideas like thinking about the fossil fuel industry and like, what is it really symbolizing? Right? I’ve, I’ve been just recently thinking a lot about architecture and this, and something called carbon form.

music: And it’s

Verda: basically this idea that architecture is also representing this fossil fuel legacy of speed, productivity, mobility, all these things that, that. We need to shift away from extraction, right? Control.

Jon: Yeah.

Verda: And it’s in the structure of everything that we are urban fabric. And We need to recognize that type of thing.

So I think the more we talk about how these ideas intersect and what the bigger messaging is, that isn’t immediately visible, the more we will get, get there and get more sophisticated with our thinking around climate change. Because when I started, I was very unsophisticated and this was just a few years ago and I realized more and more that the problem is so interconnected with other problems and it’s such a big problem that it is, it is a lot to understand you.

We all almost need to go back to school.

Isaias: Exactly.

Verda: All right, a couple more questions for Isaiah before we run out of time here. So we’ve spoken to several guests so far this season who are impacting their own immediate community or Ecosystem as we call it. Where do you call home? And do you feel like your campaigns have had a direct impact on where you live?

Isaias: Yeah, absolutely. So I started this independent web series. It’s called teaching client together and it was very inspired. by this idea that like I was really done doing short form videos. I said, you know, I need to have long form videos. I need to have something else outside of Instagram. And so I started growing my YouTube channel and the point about the series of teaching climate together, it’s like, it’s inspired by PBS type shows.

And I just said, you know what? I’m tired of going to castings and being told, no, that’s just how the industry is. It’s competitive. And I said, you know what? I’m going to create my own media. Like, I can’t wait. Like, even if it’s like, The bet the not the best camera quality because I don’t have the budget like whatever.

I’ll just do it. So I did this episode. It’s my second episode from the web series. It’s called Can Los Angeles be fixed? Urban ecology and we looked at the Los Angeles River the way that it was designed. What happened to it? The landscape ecologies from an urban ecologist. And I said, This is a perfect way to really introduce experts in their specific areas.

secular fields to showcase that I’m not just an educator, but I’m also a student now. And so in that, in that dynamic of that, that show, when we produced the episode, we hosted this series, it’s like a field trip series. And we took people to the Los Angeles river. This happened actually two weeks ago. You can see the videos and photos on there.

And. What happened is that I thought only 10 people were going to show up, 60 plus people showed up.

Verda: Wow.

Isaias: And I, I was so shocked to see like, wow, like people are really interested in wanting to learn about the Los Angeles river. And we did the Los Angeles river. Um, and then we got like, you got, and like, it was really amazing to see the whole audience.

Like tell me I’ve been looking for a community events like these. I’ve been looking to get involved with the LA river, but I didn’t know how. And it got so much traction on LinkedIn and on Instagram that like the organizations that work directly at the Los Angeles river were messaging me. And they’re like, how did you get this many people to show up to your event?

Like, can we work together on something? And I was like, wow, like what came as, what came as an idea for me as impact media was that, yes, like the video may not get millions of views. It’s almost at a thousand views, but like. A thousand views is a thousand people to me and that’s impact. But then the field trip series was like that real life [00:35:00] experience where it’s like, I want you all to feel what I felt on that video of, I feel so much more aware around my ecological smell and awareness and like understandings of histories and I can be an active citizen in this part of this urban area to practice urban ecology.

And so the field trip. What I would say was very successful that a lot of people were messaging me after and they’re like, when’s the next event? And I’m like, and it sucks because like as someone that’s independent, like everything moves so slowly and I, I just, I feel sometimes defeated of like, I have all these great ideas, but again, I don’t get the funding.

And then you see these mediocre foundations that are like, yeah, like the Rockefeller or whatever funding, these like weird series of going to the global South, where typically the majority of the team are not even people of color. Filming these people and they’re like, we did impact media. I’m like, they don’t even get to benefit off of that media.

They don’t, you didn’t even create anything profiles for them. And so I think it’s day by day. I take it easy on that.

Verda: I love that. You definitely have to figure out how to do more of those. I, I did a project with the LA river not too long ago and it’s, it’s also a very complicated cause there’s gentrification, there’s all kinds of organizations and businesses vying for that prime real estate and.

You know, we got to watch out for the, for those that, that need, need to have a voice. So I think your work there would be very well taken.

Isaias: Yeah. Thank you.

Jon: So I think, Virta, we haven’t had any, you did share one fact, but are there any other facts that you have that you want to share?

Verda: Oh yeah, thinking about, um, I think something you mentioned on another podcast that you’re into zero waste and, and being vegan and all that.

And it reminded me of this, thinking about the CO2 emissions per capita

music: of Americans and

Verda: it’s, It’s crazy. What is it? It’s 15. 32 tons per capita per year. An Italian is 5. 96 for example, so one third. And a Mexican is even less than that, 3. 63. And you know, it’s, it’s hard to even grasp like, you know, Even if I took the bus, even if I was able to not use any plastic and become a vegan, would I really lower that number?

I mean, I just, we’re here in America. Just the way we live is just so extravagant. These large houses and. So on and so forth, but I don’t know if that’s a question or not.

Jon: We’re lamenting, we’re lamenting.

Isaias: It’s a reflection of like, you know, I know we can always acknowledge that yeah, billionaires have like a large impact, but I know what you’re also saying too.

It’s like, as individuals, like I was telling this to a friend, like I used to be more sustainable when I was in poverty because I didn’t have much resources. But it’s counterintuitive, right, for me to be like, go vegan, save emissions. And then I’ve taken, like, I don’t know how many flights I took, but I went to Dubai, London, Copenhagen, Canada.

Like I probably use so much emissions that a group of people in a global South country who do not have access to travel right now, or don’t have the funds to travel, I probably use up their yearly emissions. And like, and again, like it goes back to this thing where it’s like, who am I to be telling people to change.

immediately their choices is to shame them when like I recognize that contradiction on that end too.

Jon: Yeah. You’re not going to be perfect. You can be like Taylor Swift and buy, you know, buy offsets for your, for your, your jet travel.

Verda: I have one super quick last question. What do you feel is the number one thing that we can do individually to combat?

Climate change. It’s a hard question. There isn’t one thing. There isn’t one thing. That’s, it’s kind of, it’s a trick question.

Jon: Hey, listen, make them, make them pick one.

Isaias: I would say practice the gifting economy, which is a system in which you give to your neighbors without expecting anything in return. The easiest example is that if you have a fruit tree and you see fruit rotting on the floor, why don’t you put it out and give it for free in the neighborhood?

Simple and free.

Verda: That’s a great one. The gift economy. I love it. I love it. Great answer.

Jon: I have one last question, too, before we part ways. How do you, Isaias, how do you stay on the cutting edge? How do you, it just seems like you are like surfing. On the bleeding edge of this sort of conversation, how do you stay, how do you stay out there?

Isaias: I think for me, it’s always about meeting new people and having those conversations culturally and internationally. And I think that’s, what’s helped me have a more holistic experience. Cause the more I meet people, the more I’m like challenged with my thought process. And I’m like, Oh yeah, like I shouldn’t have thought that, or maybe I didn’t think about that.

I think always being open helps.

Jon: Awesome. What a way to wrap it up. Yeah. Isaiah’s. Thank you for spending time with us today. It was really fun.

Verda: Yeah, that was amazing. I’d love to go tour the LA river with you. [00:40:00] I’ll be out there in March.

Isaias: Yes. We might actually have it in March or April, so I’ll see you there.

Verda: All

right, John. Yep. Queer Brown, vegan. I am sold. I don’t know if I’m going to go vegan, but I, I don’t eat a whole lot of meat as it is, but shoot, that’s hard, but you know, every bit counts. Right. And, and there’s so much more to this conversation. Right. I, I, after you discovered him and I was doing my research, I realized that I’d read a certain book.

a short article by him in that slow factory book catalog. Yeah. Collective, collective liberation. So, you know, he’s, he’s kind of everywhere and I hadn’t quite realized it. He is

Jon: everywhere. I’m going to say it. I said it during our interview with Isaiah, but I am so excited about our Climate narrative that we are.

It’s just getting more complex and sophisticated. And, you know, we’re not just talking about, um, you know, recycling plastic anymore. We’re talking about so many deeper, better facets of environmentalism. I, I just love Isaiah’s. I, you know, every time we come off, uh, an episode, I’m in love with somebody new,

Verda: John.

Well, that’s a good thing, right? No, but he was a pro. And I think because he does a lot of what he does is on social media. It’s all soundbites. He was able to talk about these incredibly complex topics.

Jon: Yeah.

Verda: I think that learning that way today is valuable for this next generation and teaching that way.

Jon: Yeah. And I give him so much credit for, um, the self confidence that he has to, to tackle these complex problems, things like petro masculinity, right. To tackle them and not worry about what people are going to say or think, you know, the, the self confidence is just, I love it and I want some of it.

Verda: Yeah. I mean, he even challenges plant based diets and talks about vegan capitalism.

I mean, he will go back and re examine just because it’s plant based. Is it good? Right. He will examine and re examine.

Jon: Yeah.

Verda: Really dig in and I’ve learned so much from him.

Jon: What a natural educator. I’m so glad we found some time to talk with him. It’s awesome.

Verda: I’d love to have him back on another time.

Jon: Yeah. Hey, listen, when you and I go on our world tour, I mean, you know that we got the L. A. River. We got that flight over the Alps from, uh, Austria to Southern Italy. We have Buffalo Bayou with Bayou Dave. Um, we got a lot of stops. It’s going to be a hell of a t shirt. I’ll tell you that much. Break some dishes world tour 2025.

Verda: I love it, John.

Jon: Oh, Verda. You know what time it is. Cue the music.

Verda: It is time for the hot seat.

Okay. John, we’ve got our hot seat guest for the day today. And he’s, he’s a very,

Jon: it’s really hot.

Verda: Yeah. It’s a

Jon: really hot seat today.

Verda: Oh boy. Yeah. He’s a very special guest. He’s actually my boss, the editor in chief of Metropolis magazine, Avi Rajagopal. And he’s also has a sister podcast on the Surround Network, Deep Green.

If you haven’t listened to Deep Green, it is so educational. I learn something every time I tune in. So please tune in. Welcome Avi. Thanks so much for having me, Verda.

Jon: Thanks for joining us.

Verda: Hopefully your seat isn’t getting hot yet, but it will.

Jon: Avi, are you ready?

Avi: Yeah.

Jon: Avi, question number one. What have you recycled today?

Avi: Packaging from grocery shopping.

Jon: Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you for that.

Verda: I have an unprepared hot seat question. Yeah. Packaging. Do we know how much packaging comprises our waste stream off the top of our head?

Jon: Oh God, Verda. Oh,

Avi: I actually have the answer to that. So we don’t know how much it comprises our waste stream, but it is the number one use of plastics and the number two use of fossil fuels.

Jon: Yeah, so my follow up to the hot seat is this, Avi, do you think that any of the plastic that you recycled today is actually going to be recycled?

Avi: Well, Greenpeace says recycling rates in the U. S. are about 5 to 10 percent, so I, you know, I’m just gonna say it’s my little, it’s, I’m, I’m setting up the system for success, whether it succeeds or not, I don’t know.

Verda: Okay.

Avi: All right. Back

Verda: to

Avi: our regular hot seat

Verda: question list. Back to the hot seat. I knew, I knew those would be good for Avi. He has all the facts in his head. [00:45:00] Okay. What material in our industry should just not exist?

Avi: I just wrote a piece about this. So if I could snap my fingers, I would get rid of PVC today.

But I would also acknowledge that that’s a very, very tough thing to do.

Verda: Yes, as we know. Okay, John, next question.

Jon: Have

Avi: you

Jon: read anything inspiring lately besides what you’ve written?

Avi: Yes. Uh, I recently read a much older book by the science fiction writer, Ursula Le Guin. It’s called The Eye of the Heron. Uh, and it’s, uh, it’s about this, uh, group, essentially, of climate refugees who have set up a civilization on another planet.

And they encounter many of the same problems with politics and decision making as we do. It’s also a really wonderful rumination on the idea of non violence as a means of protest and social change. A really, really beautiful book. It’s not one of her, it’s not usually considered one of her best. I didn’t even know about it until very recently, but I’m a huge fan of hers.

Um, but it’s, it’s been very, very thought provoking and inspiring to me. That’s the eye of the Heron by Ursula Le Guin.

Verda: I’m putting it on my list. I didn’t know about it either. For those of you that didn’t know, Avi’s a huge science fiction buff. All right. Our next question, moon colony or bunker?

Avi: Bunker.

Bunker. He seems pretty

Jon: certain of that. I like this planet too much.

Verda: Yeah, I agree.

Jon: Yeah. Fix it. Let’s fix it. Fix it. What’s worse? Cryptocurrency or space travel?

Avi: Oh my god, that’s a hard choice. Both are pretty, pretty awful. Um, you

Verda: could say both.

Avi: I would say both. Don’t make me choose between those two.

Jon: All right, this is another tough one, Avi.

Show yourself. Show yourself up. Get ready for it. Taylor Swift or Tracy Chapman? Tracy Chapman.

Avi: Even though I love Taylor Swift. I’m not. Who doesn’t love Taylor Swift? I love Taylor Swift. Tracy Chapman. Come on, man. Okay,

Verda: last question. With the sixth mass extinction underway, is there one species, plant or animal, that you would be really devastated if they were no longer on the planet?

Avi: It’s a toss up between whales and elephants for me, but I’m going to go with whales. I would be, I think, beyond heartbroken. If we didn’t have whales anymore.

Verda: Great answer.

Avi: Great answer. Yeah.

Verda: Way to

Jon: go. You’re a champion. Thanks

music: to

Jon: Isaias Hernandez for joining us. We’d love to hear about the issues that you’d like us to address.

Be sure to let us know by leaving a positive review wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also ask your hot seat questions there. Break Some Dishes is a surround podcast by Sandow Design Group.

Verda: Thanks to the team behind the scenes. This episode is produced by Rob Schulte and edited by Rob Adler.

Thanks to master dynamic for the official headphones of the surround network. You can hear other podcasts like this one at surround podcast. com.