Building Glass Houses on a Mountainside

This transcript was made in part by an automated service, in some areas it may contain errors. 

AJ: [00:00:00] This episode is made possible thanks to our sponsor, Marvin, driven to imagine and create better ways of living with custom crafted window and door solutions. Learn more at marvin.com/modern. Welcome to Once Upon a Project. The show where we uncover the real stories behind the most inspiring design collaborations. I'm your host, AJ Perone, and today we're heading to the mountains, literally and creatively. I'm joined by architect Michael Upal from Upwell Design Architects, known for his modern craftsman philosophy and deep respect for nature.

And Gary Hill, our master builder and longtime collaborator. From Midway Construction Company, together they've [00:01:00] brought more than 65 high-end residential projects to life. But today we're diving deep into one in particular,

the stunning pinnacle sky house in Park City.

A home encased in class, rooted in the landscape, and built to withstand the wild beauty of Utah's environment.

So Gary and Michael, you've completed over 65 high-end homes together, but I wanna know, what was your very first project together and how has your dynamic kind of evolved since that very first project?

Michael: Oh, Gary, do you remember the first

Gary: How, how old are we right now? 'cause I'm trying to go back that many years and that's where I'm all of a sudden like,

Michael: I think it's right when they discovered fire. We thought we could use that inside and we

Gary: And the wheel,

Michael: No, the wheel helped a lot.

Gary: was amazing. And

Michael: That was a big, that was a game changer.

Gary: I would say some of the early ones when we got started would've been [00:02:00] Waterhouse in Glen Wild, right? So navigating Glen Wild and kind of all that, that came to be that very unique design.

right? All of a sudden, it's funny 'cause we start talking about this and thinking through some of those last projects or early on projects and, and the names kind of start popping into your mind and it's, and it's really, each time that name or a new name comes in, like, wait a second.

Oh my gosh. Remember that experience? Remember we dealt with that and the difficulties that were there and then in the end result of course as we love, was the best part.

Michael: So, and then the Waterhouse doesn't mean a lot to a lot of people other than Gary and I, but we called it. We, we called it the castle house affectionately because the clients came to us, they're building in the mountains on a golf course, and they wanted a castle. And so it was like, wow, okay, what do we do with this?

And

AJ: a, A Tudor style castle. A modern castle

Michael: like a stone. Well, we, we took the word castle and really went to the most liberal definition of castles. We stretched it a little bit. [00:03:00] So there was no tours involved. Were there tours? No.

Gary: No, there's no tour, but the entry, right? So we had the big dome. Then we basically called it, in the end, the entire dome was done by individual panels of copper. And, and everybody kind of coined the phrase, well, it's, it's the dragon skin, because it was, each one was, was handmade. but they, we actually had the, the, the tradesmen on the roof. With a product there that they could bend everything to shape and then walk it over because they got sick and tired of one trying to bring each piece up the ladder, trying to dry fit it, take it back down, and then piece it again.

So anyway, it absolutely was incredible. just that dome shape was, you know, it was just such a, it's such a focal point of the home when you entered the, uh, property.

AJ: I've been hearing about the two of you in your longtime history, and people explain your relationship as a bromance. So tell me, what's one thing that you admire [00:04:00] about each other's process or personality on a job site? So Michael, tell us something about Gary

Michael: Gary's a great communicator and Gary is, is positive. He's, he's, yes. So many contractors we work with, you know, you start with no, and then you have to try to get them to work toward the yes. Gary always starts with Yes. And then we figure out, okay, how do we get to Yes.

And that positive attitude is very design friendly because as you're designing, you're trying to bring this idea out into the world, and you're going through many different languages, many different, Uh, specialties, different people. It's a very complex, experience to be able to take an idea and make it a reality.

And so the less resistance you get along the way, the more fluid and the more potential can actually find its way into reality. And

AJ: Now that I know Gary, that you're a yes man, I, I understand why people ask build a castle.

Gary: Yeah. I, I, think I would take that back to, you know, when my kids were young enough and they, [00:05:00] uh, what, what was the show, Bob? The builder.

AJ: Yes.

Gary: Every,

AJ: Oh, yes.

Gary: now and again, I'll be like, Yes, we can.

AJ: So Gary, what do you admire about Michael?

Gary: one of the major things, right, which I, I think is very important and, and not easily accomplished with someone with, Michael's abilities, which is in the artistic realm, right? his ability to one, literally look at a lot, whether it's photographs, whether it's standing on the site, whatever the case may be, and literally, I believe in his mind, visualize I.

what the, inspiration should be for that home, the whole artistic impression comes in and then be able to go and take that and put pencil to paper. I've actually, I actually can think of a couple times where we were meeting a client at his office and we're waiting down there and, and you know, Michael, you know, and, and the secretary and those that are in the office.

Oh yeah. Be done in just a minute. He is. Just wrap it up with some things like that and literally come down. At the time he was in this small little house, right? It was like I, [00:06:00] all the people were just stacked in there. And he comes downstairs and he is got the, he's got basically the, the, the prelim sketch and, and plan of the home.

And he still has really the, the, basically the lad and the different colors from what he is been drafting and drawing up by hands. Right. And he's presents it right there and he goes, oh yeah, I don't think I've been asleep all night, or something like that. Right? Because it, he's just, he's able to, one, just put that to paper, at the same time Michael has the ability stepping aside from that side and have the business sense in which to create the machine, and he has some amazing individuals in his office.

Right? that has the ability to follow his lead. And take those inspirational drawings and thoughts through discussion and everything else, and actually then create the, the, the plan in which we're able to build from

AJ: I, I got a question. Michael, are you still creating everything by drawing?

Michael: Yeah. I still draw my hand. the floor plans, like, as Gary [00:07:00]said, the connection to the site, the direction, the act of discovery.

So I'll start, you know, like Gary said, we'll identify on the site the views, the orientation, and just kind of let it be as loose as possible and flow. And then I'll work, I'll change colors, I'll work in red, and then I'll work in blue, and then I'll eventually just keep the darker colors and just keep overlaying and pulling the best ideas from that original sketch through to the next layer.

And then overlaying again. So it's really this discovery where you're pulling the essence of the house through the different layers. So by the time I'm done, I'll have eight or nine or more sheets of fodder. It's transparent drawing paper you can see through.

AJ: call it trash in

Michael: Yeah. Okay. So, you know, and by and by the top one actually starts to look like a house.

And you can, you can see, oh, I see. That's, that's, that's a house. And, and then I can take that and hand that off to my machine, my team, where I'm very analog and don't know anything about technology. It my team is extremely the opposite [00:08:00] end of the spectrum.

Young kids, very passionate, very technologically, uh, savvy. I think Gary would agree. So, you know, leveraging the light, the latest technology and, and so that balance of just this, I. Brain to hand, which I believe is the quickest conduit for an idea to get out into the world, is that, you know, that synapse right there between, between the idea that there, I don't lose the art part of it.

And then at the same time, we always have that artistic sketch in the background in the computer. We can pull it back up and say, are we getting too far away from the original art? And make sure that. Again, those layers still are tracking, and if you backtrack that reverse timeframe, it gets back to those original just wild scribbles and, and, and, and I love to, to go both forward and backward in time and see how that, how that works.

It's really cool.

AJ: I love that you do that because you know, when I talk to young designers and architects, have been born into a system where they start on the computer.

Gary: Yeah. Yeah.

AJ: that's where they start drawing. And I [00:09:00] find myself, I've, I'm in that, period where we did do both, we did hand drafting and, but for when I design anything to this day, I do it by hand and I then use technology.

But it's, I know that I come up, I can't do it on the computer. I have to. Come up with the idea on a piece of paper and touching and feeling and putting the trash paper over each layer and building onto it. So I love that you do that. Do you ever take those drawings and actually frame it as a piece of art and give it to the client?

Michael: Yes, we do sometimes.

AJ: love that. That's so great.

Michael: We're doing more and more of that too. So we've gone back, uh, Josh and I just added up all of our project gear and we're like over a thousand homes we've done. So we're going back through the archives. I scan every page to It's all important to me and, and my, uh, funeral pyre will be my, uh, all my sketches

AJ: Well, let's hope not for a long, long time.

Michael: that's the plan.

Yeah.

[00:10:00] This episode of Once Upon A Project is brought to you by Marvin, where thoughtful design meets lasting performance. Marvin's windows and doors. Don't just frame of view, they shape how we experience space, light, and comfort. Whether you're designing for function, beauty, or both, Marvin helps bring your visions to life. 

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AJ: So let's get into

the

pinnacle sky house

tell us the origin story

Michael: wonderful people. They were looking at a piece of property and we both walked it together and, we built, I dunno if he built the stand up there or something, so we could actually stand and see the view. We're walking through 12 to 14 foot of scrub oak tree.

So there's really hard to, you know, to get a perspective of the view. But once we could get up above [00:11:00] it and the view, this is a, a, a downhill slope that looks out over. the golf course of this community, but beyond the golf course in the valley are all the ski mountains that make up the wonderful Park city experience that brings everybody here from all over the world. And, and that's your wallpaper, right? That's that's what they loved and wanted to have wrapped around them.

So Gary and I, we just, we began the conversation. We just literally started kicking dirt, walking through the, you know, the scrub and, and, and just getting a feel for the lay, the, the topography, the different ways it felt, and we've kind of watched our clients gravitate continually to this certain spot on the lot that it's just seemed to be there.

You know, their happy place, the, the place that, that really drew them to why this, you know, this property spoke to them. That became the central focus that we wrapped the home around. Instead of placing a home right in the middle of that, taking it away, we celebrated this with this [00:12:00] outdoor living space, and And for them to come out and have that indoor outdoor experience when the windows can open up and disappear and the wall literally evaporates where you can question, am I inside or am I outside? And that transition is so seamless and it's still covered it's shelter.

it takes 'em back to that initial, uh, experience where it was just dirt and there was no structure there where they, um. They're back in time where they fell in love with the property. I, I think that's really a cool spot.

AJ: So, Gary, I wanna know what was going through your head when you were doing this walkthrough of the land going, okay. Michael's visionary and, and, and he's, he can see it, but I'm the one that has to figure out how to build it. So what were, what was going through your head? Was it Yes I can. Or Oh my

Gary: Okay. All right. Let's carefully say that. So sometimes in the back of your mind, you're like, know. I don't know. I don't know how we're gonna do this, but, but you know what, having that initial experience, I. With the client and the architect in that at that moment [00:13:00] is incredibly helpful, right? Because what you've got there is now, as the builder, many times what we're trying to always achieve, right?

As, as we're one, putting together the numbers for the home. What is this gonna cost? What are we looking for? Is trying to align, as the builder my expectations with the client's expectations. so, so one is, it's, it's understanding that environment and understanding that relationship. Far, far too often we get, you know, brought in late in the game and you're trying to understand and you're trying to play a little bit of a catch up. In this opportunity, in this moment, we were able to one, just jump right in.

And so that gave us that, that, that of opportunity to one, kind of really be part of the team. And, and what I do enjoy is being able to share opinions or thoughts or, or, or, you know, ideas. all of our opinions have value, but they don't have to be accepted.

And I have thick enough skin to say, yeah, you're right. You know what? Just something I wanted to throw out there, and here's an option, and that's what we look at on the property. And so that was just the, [00:14:00] for me, that was a great opportunity to be part of that exam or part of that process.

AJ: let's just talk a little bit though about the challenge of the location, you're in an extreme condition, right? I mean, even on a lovely sunny day, you're still on the top of a mountain. Right. And you might not have the same access as you would building something in a town or a city.

So how did you balance the beauty of like doing floor to ceiling glass? 'cause there's so much glass in this beautiful, beautiful home because you wanna see, you wanna be enveloped with the beauty that's around you. But at the same time, like it can get really hot and it can get really cold.

you know, you see a, a array of seasons. So how do you balance that from a building standpoint and from a, a design standpoint?

Gary: we are kind of really held to a higher standard. On a [00:15:00] daily basis, not only by the client, by the architect, but the development, right? as a builder, many times we find ourselves in this situation of being like my next job. This development is as important as the one I'm in right now. So, so I have to maintain those standards to make sure that as, as the builder, they're gonna, like, we absolutely want Midway Construction to come back in here.

We love working with them and We do take care of the property and the surroundings. Now, as far as the climate, And what we've really had to come up with is say, okay, we're in an environment where we are gonna get a lot of snow.

We're gonna be dealing with a lot of cold, how do we manage that? So we've actually come to. a process of having what we call big snow tarps and we have heated blankets and things like that. Now we use those at different times of the project, but it's primarily as we're getting ready to do, concrete work or anything else, or, or finalizing the excavation before the footings and foundation would begin.

We will watch, you know, I mean we're constant at this point. Now we're weatherman, right? So we're watching the weather, we're [00:16:00] tracking everything that we can. It's gonna snow. There's a chance of snow, and so you put down all these big tarps in the event that it does. So instead of all this labor of shoveling snow out or, or trying to melt it out, we, at some point, we've had times where it's snowed for a week at a time, which, hey, we want in Utah, that's what brings these clients out and that's it's, Hey, it's the snow that we're known for, right?

and now we, it clears up blue sky. It's amazing. We bring a crane in, we start with the guys, and we start crane the tarps out and dropping the snow off of the site. So that one, we have full access to it, and we're not compromising that. That's, that's not a common detail that anybody else is generally dealing with in lower elevations and things like that.

We've just had to evolve and understand this is the expectation is what we have to have more specialized equipment that we have with big, you know, six foot wide snow buckets on, on some of our smaller trackhoes and things like that. And these clients, they'll come in and said, okay, well you think you could be dried in and have the roof on and getting the [00:17:00] windows in before the snow comes? And I'm like. To be honest, I'd almost rather be framing during the winter 'cause everything falls frozen.

AJ: Right.

Gary: once, we're actually framing, our framers are conditioned to the fact it's like it snowed.

We're gonna clear that off and we're back framing. We dress appropriately and you get back at it. That allows us to roll into the summer months and now all of a sudden anything else where we're starting to become compromised by the, by the cold that's gone, right?

So we're able to deal with exterior stone. We're able to deal with exterior concrete, uh, more easily and things like that. we just, we live it and we understand it and it's just part of the process. So I, I would say that's one of the things in dealing with these areas, that could become difficult, especially if you're not, from here and you're aware of the circumstances.

Michael: Gary's right, it, it's a specialty, it's a high art. It's not for anyone. And, and we are at a high altitude as well too. So the sun is, you know, the air is thinner, the sun is doing more work on, on the exterior materials.

We have to choose things that will last and that won't fall [00:18:00] apart and have to be maintained, just the functional choices of the materials. Have to become part of the aesthetic, language that we're creating there as well too. and like you said, glass, right?

So much of our world is, at least my design world is glass because I want you to be connected to the nature that you are. Why you, why you chose this, this property, you wanna be in the mountains, but perhaps you want to keep your slippers on. So mentally you want to be out there and, but, but physically you want to be inside here.

So. A big sheet of glass is the best way to make that connection.

AJ: It is. I, I went from a house that was built in 1878 to 1978,

Michael: Cool.

AJ: and so the 1878, we had little, little windows

everywhere. And then I went to this 1978 like California Rambler looking, but beautiful, huge glass. Doors and windows everywhere. And I'm so much happier [00:19:00] in that space 'cause I have so much more light and I'm so much more con connected to the river and the, the places that are around us.

Michael: I'm old enough when I started working in the mountains here for some reason, people in their minds thought, if you're building in the mountains, it needs to look like a cabin, right? So it has a gable roof, uh, big boulders, trusses, a lot of heavy timber.

Kind of to bring that, that sense of more traditional shelter into the mountain environment. And a lot of. Design guidelines, which we work in really high end neighborhoods, so people are very particular. So the design guidelines, were built with that idea in mind. And thank God that access to information, um, people can see that there's other ways that you can build into the mountains.

So. More and more people have come to us for Mountain Modern Design, I think, and I think we're more known for that now. The modern is really not a style as much as a philosophy, right? Modern is, is be of the site. Don't take away from the site be a part of it.[00:20:00]

That's how you can create timelessness. If you, if you just, you look at something and it's like, oh, well of course that's there. What else would ever go there? It's not a, oh, I can see that's a 1960s direction, you know, bungalow or something like that. So I've watched the evolution of the idea of what a mountain house is, It's fun 'cause we can really push the envelope. It's really undefined, right? What is modern really? It's, it's undefined. It becomes sculpture the residents we're talking about is very straight lined, but, but still, if, if you broke it down to its components, you would find that that very fluid language and so,

AJ: I love it. And our editor in chief at Interior Design Magazine always calls the magazine Unapologetically Modern. And I love, you know, that you just embrace it and you find the best parts of what you want to focus on and, and pull it in. [00:21:00] Okay, so let's talk about this. Let's talk about some challenges.

So Gary, what was the biggest, oh, no moment on the project,

Gary: whatcha talking about everything's, everything. Just, uh, we just show up and, and we pull the plan out and it just evolves. It's, it's like that. you know, it's interesting because. What realistically, right. So what Michael and I have been talking about primarily is, right, the, uh, architectural and, and the building aspect right in, in conjunction with the client and, and how that all collaborates there.

There's a third entity really that comes into play and that is the engineer as much as I'm a yes man. many times we have engineers that we work with or we're, we're maybe not so much into the, uh, yes. As they are maybe, um, a no. And, and that doesn't always work together. So one is, is is what happens here is I would say the biggest thing that we've had to navigate and we always try as a team [00:22:00] to collaborate these details.

And where I'm going with this is incorporating and or melding the architectural with the structural. Right. So as an example, what happens is in this particular home, and I can think of one specifically, so there was a major I-beam that was running through the center of the home, and it was doing so in order to capture this major cantilever off of the deck that extended out, which we were trying to write.

We're always trying to reach further, right?

AJ: how

far was it extending

out? That's what I really wanna know.

Gary: there, there may have been somewhere around 30, 35 feet. but that's good. You know, it's, it's a good number. and that's all good and fine. And, and, and we actually had some of the things that we're dealing with.

And, but what happens is the engineer, they're held by obviously calculations and, and, uh. And, and, you know, limitations that they put upon

themselves. And gravity, there's, they, they work with gravity. And so anyway, what happened is this one particular I-Beam, uh, had been oversized and had been oversized and such that as we [00:23:00] start getting into the plan, and going through some things, it was actually pushing itself down into the header of one of the major, uh, sliding doors, for Marvin on the, on the lower level. there were some compromises within our team and Michael's team and saying, okay, what do we need to do in order to accommodate that? Because we still have to have, or we're still really driven as we should be to, to extend that as far as we can. as far as offsite.

Our, our objective is always to do that, is to find out where could there be, conflict, you know, so, so those things, and we bring that team together. and we work through those details and we're able to come up with a, with a compromise.

That basically was allowing a column to be slightly further out, which was able to allow us to reduce the overall height of that beam. And what happens is, I mean, we're talking about beams, you know, they're like, oh, you just using a seal beam? We said, no, these are beams that are gonna be, once we order it, it's coming from China, it's coming from Russia, it's coming from Europe.

And so it hits the site and a lot of times it will come directly to the [00:24:00]site and it actually skip going to, the steel yard so that it can be managed there.

That was one of them. One. One advantage that we had on this lot that did confine us within our box, if you will, of not not going outside of our envelope, was that it was solid stone.

I. A hundred percent solid stone. And there's different ways of dealing with stone. And many times you're using, we're using our large track hose with, uh, hammers attached and things like that. this particular stone did not accept hammers. It, what it would do is you would drive into it and it would just pin the thing in and literally compromise breaking off or shearing off one of your pins.

we actually then went and found and we're, we're, you know, we're like, all right, so we actually came upon these big grinders, so these big 36 inch wide grinders that we're now retroing or fitting our track coats with that literally just has the tiller on the end of these arms, so what it allowed us is as we're coming in here, we're going straight down and we're able to work our way out. So the driveway itself literally is a [00:25:00] vertical stonewall and it's on a curve and it comes around. The house itself is vertical, so sometimes, you know you're going 20, 30 feet deep.

And you're like, oh my gosh, I'd worry about the, the soil conditions sloughing off. Well, there were no sloughing. We were straight down and, and it was one of the safest environments we've ever worked in as far as, yeah, there's nothing that's gonna slough in. So, so each site kind of represents, or, or I guess, expresses its own onsite difficulties that you work through. but as far as the, the build process and that, the, the biggest things that we normally ever find is we find them offsite and we, we work together as a team to make sure that we're not spinning our wheels and wasting time, trying to navigate something that needs to be handled in that fashion, if that makes sense.

So, so I think we pride ourselves in that.

Michael: I think there's always something that it comes up on site, right? And to have the expertise that when that happens, to be able to pivot and we come together and it doesn't even freak me out anymore. It's just like, okay, well what's the [00:26:00] best way to solve this problem?

Right? 'cause every problem has a solution. and to be able to work with a team between the engineer and Gary's team and our team where it's just a, a fluid dialogue, well, well what if, well what if, well what if there?

And, and then we get to that

solution and that's pretty fun.

Gary: Yeah. And, and what we've instilled in, in everyone is win, there's a problem. Let's, I, let's not, we don't run to the owner and go, oh my gosh, did you see this problem?

What we do is, Hey, we, we just jump on the team and if the, if the owner needs to be, you know, brought into a discussion and saying, this is what we've encountered. This is our solution, and we just wanted to make you aware of it, do you have any concern or do you have any questions to how we're navigating that?

And, and so then they're brought into the things that are needed. Otherwise they're none the wiser because they don't need to be because we've already handled it offsite and we've already handled it without one. And, and that's where the collaboration comes into play. And that's where I think on these high end builds that we have it, it is truly having the background and the know, know how and [00:27:00] knowledge,

Michael: Yeah, we come to them with a solution, not just a problem.

Gary: Right.

AJ: that's really key coming with a solution. Okay. Going back to the stone building on stone, did it slow you down?

Gary: it, it, it did because I just can't, I can't excavate the same rate of speed, um, with the Tiller application, you know, just because it's, you know, it's just the process of which, you're excavating that material outright. So now we're solid stone,

AJ: So you both kind of mentioned teamwork. I, I'm wondering if each of you could give a piece of advice to younger architects and builders trying to build a long-term collaboration, like what you have done. What would your advice be?

Michael: Well, first you find, a partner with high integrity that has the same goals, the same passion. I think passion's probably the, the biggest thing. and I believe my dad told me a long time ago, you can never beat a man at his own job, right? So [00:28:00] if as an architect, listen. Listen and learn from the experts who are doing what, what they're doing every single day.

I, I know a lot of architects who come to every project with a, with a big loaded ego, and I'm the architect. I'll tell you how to do it. Well, uh, I'll tell you what, you know, who knows more about drywall than you do is the drywall guy, right? Who knows more about plumbing or, or excavation. Learn from them, and then you become a better architect through the collaboration.

So that, I, I feel like that's, that's really good advice for yamar

architects.

Gary: Yeah,

AJ: I love that. That's, that's a little bit rare too, Michael, so this is why everybody loves working with you.

Gary, what about you? What would your advice

be?

Gary: we grew up doing footings, foundation excavation, framing and, and that and the such.

And, and I was fortunate enough to be part of that at the time. I didn't think that I was right. I was like, what? What is going on here? Why are we doing this? You know, and so, you always kind of [00:29:00] follow into the father's footsteps to some degree, even though at times you're like, this guy's crazy.

But, but it was like, look, look what I want to instill in you is in the building industry, is to have just a knowledge of having had that involvement in each of the phases. So as you are, as you come upon these things, you can actually be engaged with, with that particular tradesman, you're not gonna tell 'em and I, which I appreciate very much, you're not gonna tell them how to do it, you just wanna understand it more.

So one is the, the, the dialogue and the conversation is better. right? This is how we navigate that.

Michael: again, that valuable level of humility, right. I think a contractor, a general contractor has to know everybody's job, but be willing to push to push a broom. And I think that's really what I, I think is, is important. Right. And, um,

same, the same thing. You're, you're very.

Uh, not well. We are all dependent on each

individual subcontractor, right? I mean, you're dependent on your subcontractors. They're dependent on you to have their back. We're, you know, [00:30:00] if, if one of us fails, you know, it's, it's a global failure that will

chase its way through the whole project.

AJ: Okay. Final question for you guys. What makes the

 

 

AJ: pinnacle sky house

a legacy project for both of you?

Michael: it's, it's literally the experience that we had with these clients, these extremely kind clients that were with us through every discovery of challenges along the way and allowed us to, you know, to, to do our job and solve the problem, you know, as, as we, you know, as we came upon them.

And, and really I can't remember them ever really freaking out, Gary. I think, I think they were very trustworthy of our expertise. Um. And I think just the kindness of the client shows itself in the beauty of the architecture and the final product. So this is a home that always stands out to me very emotionally.

It's a beautiful piece of sculpture, but when I see it, I, I, of course, remember the journey and I, I remember the reason why it's there. and maybe, maybe the [00:31:00] legacy that I would have is kind of parroting what Michael says is it's, it's the relationships, right? I mean, I, I I would love nothing more or have the opportunity to run into them, to a restaurant in Park City. We love the Marvin product. We love working with the team and Michael and MCC and, and that whatever we can do to help, by all means, if there's something else you need, let us know.

Gary: And so for me, the legacy is, is the relationship. The home is beautiful and everything else, and I love nothing more than a pull up and just see what, how it's expressed in the, in the evening and things like that. But, but the relationships that last, and, and I would say that we have the lion's share of all of our clients and the builds over the years.

I would be able to consider them friends and still do, and would absolutely put these guys right up there with everything. And that, and that is, for me is one of the, one of the most enjoyable experiences is the walking away from a build I. And feeling that relationship and that closeness with those individuals.

AJ: I can see the art in it all. I can see the art [00:32:00] in the beauty of the design of what you've, what you've created Michael and Gary, I can see the art of your relationship and your attention to problem solving in details because you can't build something like that without somebody like you that's passionate about doing this.

So thank you both for your time today and sharing your story. Um, I. I hope everybody goes and takes a look at your pictures. We'll put 'em in the show notes, but, um, beautiful, beautiful products, beautiful, beautiful projects, and, I can't wait to, to see the next projects that are coming

into completion.

That's it for today's episode of Once Upon A Project, a huge thank you to our stellar production team,

 

 

AJ: If you loved this episode, be sure to subscribe and check out more inspiring [00:33:00] [email protected]. Until next time, keep designing with purpose. Keep asking bold questions, and we'll see you on the next episode of Once Upon A Project. This episode was brought to you by the Marvin Modern Collection, which helps visionaries achieve authentic modern architecture, all with expansive views and strong thermal performance.

Learn more at marvin.com/modern.